PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Multi-metre ice loss on decadal timescale - Hanson
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Climate Change
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13974
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tpals wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Someone once called me a 'grammar nazi'. I had to point out that conventionally, the 'n' is capitalised.

I've used that term before so you might be referring to me. If in the middle of a discussion the capitalization of Nazi becomes the most important thing to you ,you should turn off your computer and go to bed.


It's true, USonians don't get irony.


I got it. Wink

Some.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tpals wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Someone once called me a 'grammar nazi'. I had to point out that conventionally, the 'n' is capitalised.

I've used that term before so you might be referring to me. If in the middle of a discussion the capitalization of Nazi becomes the most important thing to you ,you should turn off your computer and go to bed.


It's true, USonians don't get irony.


I got it. Wink

I got the Irony. Just wasn't in a funny mood at the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
As you well know, I'm on the doomer end of the spectrum, but I'm not at the looney end.


So, Hanson is at the loony end then?
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tpals wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Someone once called me a 'grammar nazi'. I had to point out that conventionally, the 'n' is capitalised.

I've used that term before so you might be referring to me. If in the middle of a discussion the capitalization of Nazi becomes the most important thing to you ,you should turn off your computer and go to bed.


It's true, USonians don't get irony.


I got it. Wink


I obviously didn't! Rolling Eyes
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an article that predates the Hansen article which also says that ice melt will be much faster than previously thought.
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another article on the mechanism of ice loss this time from Fox News!! And a more detailed version here.
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7636

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the ice is likely to melt faster than the community thought likely a decade ago. However, do realise than Hansen is at one extreme of the scientific spectrum on this issue. It is certainly not the view of the scientific community that Hansen's projections are at all likely, they lie at the absolute limit of plausibility. To suggest otherwise is to move away from an objective scientific interpretation of the available evidence.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's just the point Chris. The extremes of scientific thinking are what is occurring in fact. The safe science that the politicians will accept is not what is happening and the politicians need to be shocked out of their complacency.

2 deg C is NOT safe!

2 deg C will flood large parts of the world and some of the most expensive parts and more importantly, the most productive food wise, at that.

2 deg C is 2 deg C too high!

The ice is melting at 1 deg C and we need to be reducing the amount of carbon in the atmosphere not increasing it further. If Hansen can convince our corrupt political class, the Kleptocracy, that they could well suffer in their lifetimes it can only be a good thing and they may well then do something about the problem.
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Science has not said that 2 is safe!

Even the current 0.8 may have put the icecaps out of equilibrium with climate so all the ice is likely to melt. The difficulty is knowing how long it will take. Politicians and engineers are mostly interested in what will happen over the next several decades (those that are interested in anything beyond the next election, anyway).

The science seems to suggest that we should prepare for a couple of metres rise within the life expectancy of major engineering and infrastructure projects, so it would be silly to build new cities close to sea level and we must plan for the evacuation of low lying areas where either the local economy or the local geology are not conducive to sea defences.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7636

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
That's just the point Chris. The extremes of scientific thinking are what is occurring in fact. The safe science that the politicians will accept is not what is happening and the politicians need to be shocked out of their complacency.

2 deg C is NOT safe!

2 deg C will flood large parts of the world and some of the most expensive parts and more importantly, the most productive food wise, at that.

2 deg C is 2 deg C too high!

The ice is melting at 1 deg C and we need to be reducing the amount of carbon in the atmosphere not increasing it further. If Hansen can convince our corrupt political class, the Kleptocracy, that they could well suffer in their lifetimes it can only be a good thing and they may well then do something about the problem.


I don't quite follow what you're saying.

Science doesn't have much to say about subjective and value laden terms such as 'safe'. You and I both know the 2C business is politics, not science. Do not try and caricature the scientific community as claiming 2C is 'safe'.

My point is that if one wants to make objective, evidence based arguments, claiming the authority of science - don't lean too heavily on Hansen. His position is extreme, it is not likely. To claim anything else is to take a step away from the science. Which of course is your right, many people operate many steps away from the science. Just be aware Hansen's (yet to be accepted) paper is beyond even the outspoken the of scientific community like Jason Box who you linked to above.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like someone at Google has been having fun with California:

http://www.newsweek.com/google-maps-now-showing-southern-california-coastal-cities-drowned-sea-level-371464
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of whither 2 deg. C is safe or not it does not appear that there is anything plausible we can do to stop it happening. And the sea level rise however large it may turn out to be will take place over decades. Long before that other pressing problems will come to a head and get resolved in ways that will most probably reduce both the pollution causing the temperature rise and the need for coastal land.
We are heading head long into the explosion of the population bomb which will create shortages of everything from drinking water to caskets, and we will have to face those realities in person long before the tide line moves inland ten miles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Regardless of whither 2 deg. C is safe or not it does not appear that there is anything plausible we can do to stop it happening.

But we can mitigate the harm. That will be well worth the effort.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Regardless of whither 2 deg. C is safe or not it does not appear that there is anything plausible we can do to stop it happening.

But we can mitigate the harm. That will be well worth the effort.

I would expect low lying areas like Florida or Bangladesh to be diked and drained similar to the Netherlands as long as there are populations needing the farm land. But that is treating the symptoms not curing the disease.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:

I would expect low lying areas like Florida or Bangladesh to be diked and drained similar to the Netherlands as long as there are populations needing the farm land. But that is treating the symptoms not curing the disease.


Two problems;one for each.

Florida does not have the same geology as the Netherlands. For dikes to keep the sea out you need impermeable material at the surface. Clay does this in the Netherlands, sand does not do this in Florida. Florida will have to be abandoned.

Bangladesh does not have the wealth to build dikes. Much of Banlgadesh will have to be abandoned.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Climate Change All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group