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What guns to buy? and related posts.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took me a few months.

I learned to ignore recoil by firing a shotgun with very heavy loads.

I even broke the receiver of one gun due to the recoil.

At first I flinched like heck ... for weeks in fact.

However one day I realised that I was now simply ignoring the recoil.

You can however only shoot about 30 rounds of the heavy stuff in a day otherwise you get severe bruising.

I did however encounter a 3" BB round from one manufacturer which was simply too loud .. cut right through ear defenders ... and a useless pattern to boot.

The first time I shot this brand my friend was nearby but with no defenders ... he was practically felled by the weird 'crack'. ... not happy.

We then swapped ... and I realised that it sounded more like a huge full bore rifle rather than a shotgun ... odd.

No more cartridges of that type were bought!
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5839
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not much for skeet shooting etc. As my shoulder will no longer take that much punishment. Competitors often go through five or six 25 round boxes in an afternoon. For me a box or two of practice with friends and a hand thrower for the clay birds now and then with light target loads is enough, and one box of field load No 6's for partridge lasts me for years. Rolling Eyes
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I opt for 56gram US BB or 00 buck.

I also use semi-magnums .. evil little things.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5839
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
I opt for 56gram US BB or 00 buck.

I also use semi-magnums .. evil little things.

Well 6s are traditional here for partridges (ruffed grouse), squirrels, and rabbits and work well for all of them without destroying a lot of meat. Turkey hunters are allowed to use everything from #2 to #8 or their bow or crossbow. I haven't done enough water fowl hunting to have an opinion about what works best. 12 gauge 6s are also quite effective on Raccoons and foxes in the chicken yard. Smile
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2332
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easiest way to reduce felt recoil is to pull the gun in tight to your shoulder. 150 0.308 in an afternoon is not a problem.

3.5" 12g supermag will beat you up though, even through a semi-auto with shock absorbing stock (Beretta A400 Unico).
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5839
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catweazle wrote:
Easiest way to reduce felt recoil is to pull the gun in tight to your shoulder. 150 0.308 in an afternoon is not a problem.

3.5" 12g supermag will beat you up though, even through a semi-auto with shock absorbing stock (Beretta A400 Unico).
Yes of course but teaching a youngster that tighter is better can be a challenge. Some adults are even worse as they think they know everything.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5839
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catweazle wrote:

3.5" 12g supermag will beat you up though, .
Best reserved for field conditions after practice with lighter target loads. No clay bird needs that much.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main quarry is foxes .. we have a lot of chickens.

My record is a fox at 120 metres with 00 buck (UK SG) at 120 metres! Fluke shot!
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 602
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
My main quarry is foxes .. we have a lot of chickens.

My record is a fox at 120 metres with 00 buck (UK SG) at 120 metres! Fluke shot!


I would no more think of shooting at a fox at 120 meters with 00 buck than I would a BB gun. Did you do it just for fun, or an experiment or something? Or is 00 buck not a shotgun load in the UK and means something else?
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2332
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
My main quarry is foxes .. we have a lot of chickens.

My record is a fox at 120 metres with 00 buck (UK SG) at 120 metres! Fluke shot!


Total fluke, I wouldn't even try it.

3" 12g with 50g of AAA do the job at 40yds, past that it's rifle time.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
Vortex2 wrote:
My main quarry is foxes .. we have a lot of chickens.

My record is a fox at 120 metres with 00 buck (UK SG) at 120 metres! Fluke shot!


I would no more think of shooting at a fox at 120 meters with 00 buck than I would a BB gun. Did you do it just for fun, or an experiment or something? Or is 00 buck not a shotgun load in the UK and means something else?


A 00 pellet at even 400 yards is not something you want to encounter.

00 buck (UK SG) has a lot of energy even at long distances.

We have a lot of land and the fox was out there staring at me.

Deer have been taken at 100+ yards so a much smaller fox is certainly be unhappy even at that distance.

The reason I tried is that I saw a comment made by an experienced fox 'hunter'.
He switches from BB or AAA to SG for the walk back to the car.
His thesis was that he would take a shot at any fox seen during the walk back ... knowing that the chance was very low ... but you can get lucky.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3" 12g with 50g of AAA do the job at 40yds, past that it's rifle time

I import US BB (it's bigger than UK BB) - this is effective to 65 metres in high energy loads.

Being a techie I computer modelled the optimum pellet size for foxes - it came out as US BB.

I then found on the web a PDF report of a real world trial using fox targets. They found that a pellet between UK BB and UK AA was optimal ... which tied in with my computer simulations.

I had to wait weeks for my US BB import to arrive so I was on tenterhooks when I tried it on test targets at 65 metres. I was astonished to find that I was correct .. very effective.

Info for our US friends : Getting a shotgun permit in the UK is not easy ... but getting a rifle permit is a nightmare. That's why I don't take fox with a rifle ... however much I would like one.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 602
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
Vortex2 wrote:
My main quarry is foxes .. we have a lot of chickens.

My record is a fox at 120 metres with 00 buck (UK SG) at 120 metres! Fluke shot!


I would no more think of shooting at a fox at 120 meters with 00 buck than I would a BB gun. Did you do it just for fun, or an experiment or something? Or is 00 buck not a shotgun load in the UK and means something else?


A 00 pellet at even 400 yards is not something you want to encounter.

00 buck (UK SG) has a lot of energy even at long distances.

We have a lot of land and the fox was out there staring at me.

Deer have been taken at 100+ yards so a much smaller fox is certainly be unhappy even at that distance.

The reason I tried is that I saw a comment made by an experienced fox 'hunter'.
He switches from BB or AAA to SG for the walk back to the car.
His thesis was that he would take a shot at any fox seen during the walk back ... knowing that the chance was very low ... but you can get lucky.


I see. I just didn't learn that way I guess. The lucky part. No money for ammo as a kid, and every round needed to bring back food. I could afford to waste 22LR ammo, at least a little, but nothing bigger.

The habit stuck. Although I must admit that as an adult with some coin in my pocket, practicing for pistol competitions required more than a few rounds just for practice. Hunting is still about that one aimed round and nothing more.
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GalebG4M



Joined: 23 Oct 2019
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard or not, the good thing is that shotguns are pretty much legal everywhere as long as you're not in Japan or some other country with crazy regulations; even the UK, Australia etc allow shotguns. AFAIK, in France, bolt action, semi auto and break action shotguns are legal while pump action ones aren't, but that's because legislators take their opinions from action movies...
But still, 12ga ammo is everywhere and is likely to stay.
When it comes to long term resilience, I imported a 3-digit number of Soviet-made full-brass 12ga shells, these can be reloaded as long as they're not damaged, like rifle casings, which is a good thing to have.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5839
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid winter here and between plowing snow and making the wood pile fade away one piece at a time I have found the time to go through some of the advertising junk mail that comes before it is chucked into the furnace along with the wood.
I notice a lot of adds for 6.5 Creedmoor rifles and ammo a caliber new enough that I have never actually seen one. What is all the fuss?
A little surfing on the internet I find it touted as the greatest thing sense smokeless powder, able to make 1000 yard shots and tip over deer and elk with ease. I took that like a teenager explaining the new dent in my fender to me.
So I turned to Federals ballistic calculator and plugged in some on line data for 6.5CM factory ammo and compared it to my 7x57 loaded with 175 grain Nosler partitions and a load from their fifth addition manual. I set the calculator for 250 yard sight ins at 1700 feet in elevation (my house)and had it crank out numbers for 50 yard intervals to 1000 yards.
The creedmoor starts out it's 140 grain bullet at 2675fps and 2224 ft. lbs. of energy. at 150 yards it is 3.7 inches above line of sight, at 350 yds. 10.5 below and energy has dropped to1407ft. lbs. and at 1000yds it is 331.5inches low with just 543 ft. lbs. remaining. Not a bad show but is it better?
The 7x57 starts out it's 175gr bullet at 2574fps and 2574 ft. lbs. of energy. at 150 yards it is 4.1 inches high. at 350yds 11.3 inches low with 1630 ft. lbs. energy remaining. At 1000 yards it is 357.0 inches low and has 639 ft. lbs of energy.
So the Creedmoor is just 0.4 inches flatter at 150 yards and 25.2 inches over 1000 yards. It also never has the energy of the 7x57 at any range or the bullet weight of diameter. Much taadoo about nothing.
I don't have any range with 1000 yard targets but if I did and had a scope capable of seeing 331 inches low I'm sure it would also be able to see 357 inches. But for all of my hunting a 200 or 250 yard sight in and 300 yard shot limit is plenty. So again why all the fuss? The manufacturers need a new product to sell to customers that already have all the guns they need. Having worked through the "short magnum" phase and sold as many belch and roar variations as they could they now turned to a rifle with lower recoil that still puts out adequate accuracy and killing power for deer sized game. All the hype is just to get as many newcomers to buy something new rather then take up Granddads 30-06 or heaven forbid a 30-30.
Like cell phones with five cameras in them if it isn't new this year it isn't good enough.
So in the end I don't need one and won't be shopping for one now. But perhaps in a dozen years or so I can pick up one from someone that has gone on to the next new thing as a starter rifle for my granddaughter.. Wink
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