PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Northern California to face Power Outages.
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Electrical, Theory and Practice
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 2451
Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:09 pm    Post subject: Northern California to face Power Outages. Reply with quote

Local utility company will be cutting power during periods of high winds to mitigate against risk of wildfires starting due to downed power cables.

Sign of the Times!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49982236
_________________
Engage in geo-engineering. Plant a tree today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7947
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, the public demanded that "something be done" after the last major fire, and something HAS been done.
I am rather doubtful about the merits of this policy since I feel that the lack of electricity supply will increase the use of alternatives, including;
Portable generators, can catch fire, as can overloaded extension leads connected thereto, and accidents due to improper use of petrol.
Greater use of barbecues and outdoor fireplaces.
Greater use of kerosene and LPG lights and of candles, increased risk of house fires which can spread to dry surroundings.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReserveGrowthRulz
Banned


Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 742
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is outstanding!!

Last edited by ReserveGrowthRulz on Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 2451
Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, this is slow collapse in action. Public and private sector finances weighed down by the burden of debt. Cutting of costs leading to failing infrastructure and services. Add in a small dose of climate change and Bob's your uncle; heading back to the 19th century.
_________________
Engage in geo-engineering. Plant a tree today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7947
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, whilst the USA is still a rich country and COULD afford to upgrade these overhead lines, there seems to be a lack of political will.

Whom would pay for these upgrades, which will almost certainly be visually intrusive, and lead to increased outages whilst the work is done.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReserveGrowthRulz
Banned


Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 742
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarrel wrote:
To me, this is slow collapse in action. Public and private sector finances weighed down by the burden of debt. Cutting of costs leading to failing infrastructure and services. Add in a small dose of climate change and Bob's your uncle; heading back to the 19th century.


No collapse required. Sad

Just dumbass Californians most likely.


Last edited by ReserveGrowthRulz on Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReserveGrowthRulz
Banned


Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 742
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Yes, whilst the USA is still a rich country and COULD afford to upgrade these overhead lines, there seems to be a lack of political will.


Of course we can afford it.


Last edited by ReserveGrowthRulz on Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1865

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarrel wrote:
To me, this is slow collapse in action. Public and private sector finances weighed down by the burden of debt. Cutting of costs leading to failing infrastructure and services. Add in a small dose of climate change and Bob's your uncle; heading back to the 19th century.


Judging by this they are a lot further down the road than you realise Evil or Very Mad
_________________
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7947
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
Tarrel wrote:
To me, this is slow collapse in action. Public and private sector finances weighed down by the burden of debt. Cutting of costs leading to failing infrastructure and services. Add in a small dose of climate change and Bob's your uncle; heading back to the 19th century.


Judging by this they are a lot further down the road than you realise Evil or Very Mad


Some nice pictures of dilapidation in the above link, but I have seen broadly similar in rural parts of the UK, including near me.
There is a great reluctance to spend money, public funds or private, on renewing things that still work.
When it goes bang, bodge it again, or renew if beyond bodging.

Rural electricity supply is almost never profitable and should be considered as a charity, or best a social service, rather than a business.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 12028
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the article, I don't think that those are rural supplies, Adam, they're urban. While most of our urban supply is underground, I believe that a lot of US urban, non city centre, supply is above ground. Local planning regulations do have advantages most of the time.
_________________
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 723
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair on the US I think they were the first country to electrify and have a reticulation system so the "assets" are probably old. California was even 50 Hertz for a while before a nationwide grid was adopted.

To get sheer resilience in a pole you need to go no further than the good ole South Australian Stobie Pole. Made of two steel girders sandwiched and bolted together with reinforced concrete as the filling in between. Originally railway lines were used.
Termite proof, child proof and even crashing car proof - hit one wrongly and your car will be cleaved in two. Whatever you think about the South Australian liking for renewables and expensive electricity a state which had very little wood but plenty of concrete and steel in the Depression era thirties had a good, if deadly to careless motorists, idea. I have seen them in voltages up to 66kV - two feet wide at the base - they would have stopped a tank.

I just felt the urge to include a photo. No rotting for this puppy. 11kV on top. 400 Volt 3-phase below and the telephone/cable service below that for good measure. Even a street light stuck on the side now and then.


_________________
G'Day cobber!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 6304
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be so quick to assume the entire US grid is in similar shape. My own utility just enlarged and overhauled the sub station that my electricity flows through to the tune of three million dollars and has a good program of pole and line replacement that keeps them ahead of the rate of rot and rust. California on the other hand has had liberal government majorities for decades which set rates way to low for proper maintenance to be routinely performed.
Oh and by the way my co-op utility which serves rural areas exclusively has a balanced budget while getting 100 percent of it's power from renewable sources. Not that you could easily expand that to utilities serving major metropolitan or industrial areas but there is no need for any utility rural or urban to operate at a loss. If you disagree try generating your own household power for a month and see what your cost per KWH comes out to.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 6304
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BDU.
Those are rugged poles for sure but considering the cost of steel and concrete vs. the cost of a wooden pole and the size and strength of the machinery needed to set each pole I think wood will win out for most local distribution systems. The wooden poles they are replacing here in Vermont are often 75 years old and have served well for the initial cost. Of course some poles are in locations where errant vehicles hit them more or less regularly and those might best be replaced with a more substantial and survivable pole such as the ones in your picture.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7947
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ongoing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50191237

At least one major fire has been blamed on power cables, and more large scale precautionary outages are imminent.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1865

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yves Smith: California Blackout: Turning out the lights
_________________
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Electrical, Theory and Practice All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group