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Global Climate Destabilisation
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 782
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Global Climate Destabilisation Reply with quote

One of the singular propaganda successes of the insanely well resourced denial lobby has been the adoption and global substitution of the term "Global Warming" with the much more anodyne, indeterminate term "Climate Change" (including I note, most skeptically indeed, the adoption of such a fossil industry user friendly version by this esteemed forum).

Whilst detailed minutiae of the observed physical manifestations are informative to the scientific method inclined, they do not really capture hearts and minds of the righteous aircraft flying,large car driving etc fossil fuel head moral majority by confronting them convincingly with physical reality.

Maybe we need to appeal more to their well developed dense of lifestyle entitlement with more emphasis on the emotional effects of the dangerous experiment we are conducting on the global climate.

The last winter here on the Wild Atlantic Way was one of the most extreme that I, and many others I have talked to, can remember. The seemingly endless succession of Atlantic low weather events began to get on top of folk, but not to the extent experienced down the country especially on the banks of the well flooded river Shannon.

This is an attempt by me to capture the impact of such extreme weather bombs.

https://youtu.be/6CWpIPGtED0
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snow hope



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: outside Belfast, N Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the term Global Warming was changed (by the IPCC?) to Climate Change when some global cooling occurred.

Loved the music on the video...... Laughing

Where is the accent originally from PV?
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking about the WAW and global warming, it's instructive that Trump calls GW a hoax, a Chinese conspiracy - yet wants to build a massive wall to protect his Atlantic-boundaried golf course down here from the effects of climate change. Yes, they refer to such things in the planning application.

Whilst adding to GW with thousands of truck journeys of quarried stone, this wall - which will go ahead, it's money doing its dastardly work - might take some energy out of the Atlantic storms and will definitely cause undesirable effects to its north and south.
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow hope wrote:

Where is the accent originally from PV?


Ulster ?
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catweazle wrote:
snow hope wrote:

Where is the accent originally from PV?


Ulster ?


Maybe - but I've heard Lithuanians who learned to speak English with a plausible Norn Iron accent.
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 782
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow hope wrote:
I believe the term Global Warming was changed (by the IPCC?) to Climate Change when some global cooling occurred.



According to Steven Poole, in his magnum opus on propaganda "Unspeak" (Abacus 2006) the genesis of all this is US Republican spin doctor Frank Luntz advising his masters on the strategy of "redefining labels" and"winning the climate debate".

Strangely enough the elimination of the term "global warming" and its substitution with "climate change" by IPCC came largely as a result of lobbying by Saudi Arabia, USA, the then Soviet Union and China whilst the Saudis obsessed about treaties referring only generally to "greenhouse gases' and not specifically to CO2.

Poole's book is an excellent guide to how spin doctors have striven above all else to try and make it virtually impossible to conduct a rational debate, on just about any important subject, by mauling language so much that words can become meaningless to a large extent. If you are not a total cynic already this book will push you over the edge.

In the spirit of all this I propose this sub forum be renamed "Global Climate Destabilisation".

Oh and I say "Up Down!".
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Last edited by Potemkin Villager on Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Talking about the WAW and global warming, it's instructive that Trump calls GW a hoax, a Chinese conspiracy - yet wants to build a massive wall to protect his Atlantic-boundaried golf course down here from the effects of climate change. Yes, they refer to such things in the planning application.

Whilst adding to GW with thousands of truck journeys of quarried stone, this wall - which will go ahead, it's money doing its dastardly work - might take some energy out of the Atlantic storms and will definitely cause undesirable effects to its north and south.

I am about as far from a Trump supporter as you can get so consider this as just construction experience of the way it is, not support for it.
So Trumps building a golf course in the UK. He needs the required permits to proceed. The people / bureaucracy that issues permits for that project believe in climate change and impending sea level rise. They will not issue any permits that conflict with that point of view. The engineering firms and architects Trump has hired know this and and include measures and plans to address this so the permit gods are happy. They will make quite a bit of money supervising the construction of these mitigation measures so it is no skin off their nose to include them and there is no reward for talking the permit gods out of their position. Trump who doesn't give a rats pahtoot about climate change gets his permit and builds his golf course and just passes on the extra cost to the golfers in higher fees which just make the club that much more exclusive.
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clv101
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow hope wrote:
I believe the term Global Warming was changed (by the IPCC?) to Climate Change when some global cooling occurred.


No, the original term in the scientific literature was 'inadvertent climate modification' this clunky phrase was then replaced with 'Climate Change'. See the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 1988 and the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) 1992. The term 'Global Warming' was first popularised by Hansen when talking to US politicians and the media picked it up.

The idea that the scientific community swapped out Global Warming for Climate Change is untrue.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
Oh and I say "Up Down!".


Aha! Up the Banner!
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Talking about the WAW and global warming, it's instructive that Trump calls GW a hoax, a Chinese conspiracy - yet wants to build a massive wall to protect his Atlantic-boundaried golf course down here from the effects of climate change. Yes, they refer to such things in the planning application.

Whilst adding to GW with thousands of truck journeys of quarried stone, this wall - which will go ahead, it's money doing its dastardly work - might take some energy out of the Atlantic storms and will definitely cause undesirable effects to its north and south.

I am about as far from a Trump supporter as you can get so consider this as just construction experience of the way it is, not support for it.
So Trumps building a golf course in the UK. He needs the required permits to proceed. The people / bureaucracy that issues permits for that project believe in climate change and impending sea level rise. They will not issue any permits that conflict with that point of view. The engineering firms and architects Trump has hired know this and and include measures and plans to address this so the permit gods are happy. They will make quite a bit of money supervising the construction of these mitigation measures so it is no skin off their nose to include them and there is no reward for talking the permit gods out of their position. Trump who doesn't give a rats pahtoot about climate change gets his permit and builds his golf course and just passes on the extra cost to the golfers in higher fees which just make the club that much more exclusive.


Yes. All politicians lie. Does that mean he'll accept climate destabilisation once he's president? Shocked

FYI, the golf course was built in 2002 for 28 million; Trump got it from the recievers for 8.7 million in 2013. It's currently making a loss in the millions which, for the time being, is probably peanuts to DT.

In my opinion, the 5-star lodge on the course is an unforgivable eyesore. Not that I can blame Trump for that, of course. Laughing
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Pepperman



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
snow hope wrote:
I believe the term Global Warming was changed (by the IPCC?) to Climate Change when some global cooling occurred.


No, the original term in the scientific literature was 'inadvertent climate modification' this clunky phrase was then replaced with 'Climate Change'. See the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 1988 and the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) 1992. The term 'Global Warming' was first popularised by Hansen when talking to US politicians and the media picked it up.

The idea that the scientific community swapped out Global Warming for Climate Change is untrue.


Indeed. But I love it how deniers still persist in trying their hardest to pursuade people that the adoption of climate change is a recent thing when the IPCC has existed so long and has it in the title.

Also as PV says above, the one person who has actually tried to redefine the labels in order to change public opinion is Frank Luntz but he was proposing that the deniers should call it Climate Change rather than Global Warming because it sounded less frightening. You can read it for yourself here.
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the Frank Luntz link PM. It is a very revealing document indeed. Whatever you might think about what he does, it is done well and does seem to work.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
Thanks for the Frank Luntz link PM. It is a very revealing document indeed. Whatever you might think about what he does, it is done well and does seem to work.


Yes. It tells us not that much more than we already knew about propaganda, lies, framing, weasel words and indoctrination, but the detail is creepily fascinating.
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"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Luntz is particularly creepy.

In a previous life he would have been happily doing the dirty for tobacco or tetra ethyl lead. To cap it all, he later proceeded to effortlessly reverse his position on climate debilitation.

According to a BBC interview:-

" Luntz: "It's now 2006. I think most people would conclude that there is global warming taking place and that the behavior of humans are (sic) affecting the climate."

BBC: "But the administration has continued taking your advice. They're still questioning the science."

Luntz: "That's up to the administration. I'm not the administration. What they want to do is their business. It has nothing to do with what I write. It has nothing to do with what I believe."

So that's all right then! What a shyster.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
Yes Luntz is particularly creepy.

In a previous life he would have been happily doing the dirty for tobacco or tetra ethyl lead. To cap it all, he later proceeded to effortlessly reverse his position on climate debilitation.

According to a BBC interview:-

" Luntz: "It's now 2006. I think most people would conclude that there is global warming taking place and that the behavior of humans are (sic) affecting the climate."

BBC: "But the administration has continued taking your advice. They're still questioning the science."

Luntz: "That's up to the administration. I'm not the administration. What they want to do is their business. It has nothing to do with what I write. It has nothing to do with what I believe."

So that's all right then! What a shyster.


He's not a banker, is he? Laughing A similar mental state.
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