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Fluoride - attempts by govt to have UK wide contamination
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1973

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume by virtue of you not answering my question that you are not doing anything to avoid drinking fluoridated water. Hence you clearly don't personally think the risk is that great.

When dissolved in water what is present is the negative ions of flourine. It does not matter what source these come from they are still the same chemically once dissolved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride

Which has interesting points about different sources of the ion. Black tea apparently has 3 times the concentrate of fluoride that fluoridated tap water does.


In large enough concentrations it can, of course, be lethal, but that is true for most things.

Hexafluorosilicilic Acid:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexafluorosilicic_acid

Indeed is one of the sources of fluoride. I don't know if there are any more.

However, in the end fluoride is the ion.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume that by not answering quite a few of my questions, you are obfuscating, which is nothing unusual. I am not surprised that an ex MP doesn't question so called "democracy", where the powers that be claim "democratic" authority for all their questionable decisions. Blair the war criminal tried that too. Black tea is irrelevant, I don't drink it.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1973

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
I assume that by not answering quite a few of my questions,

I wasn't trying to answer your questions, but deal with the key issues instead.

If you have questions then tell me what they are and I will either answer them or tell you that I won't answer them and explain why I won't answer them.

In the end, however, it is quite clear that you are "obfuscating" on the point that you are not sufficiently bothered about drinking fluoridated water yourself to do anything about it on a personal basis.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9821
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My concern is that all our waste water goes into the beds of our polytunnels and if it was fluoridated we would get a build up of fluoride in the growing medium of our food. It's bad enough with all the tooth paste residue which gets in there but adding the fluoride for the general water use would contaminate the beds even further.

What happens to all the fluoride which goes into our rivers? What about the Thames where Londoners are consuming water which has already been consumed by seven other people before it's extracted for their use? What about septic tanks and their lands drains?
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1973

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride

wikipedia wrote:
Seawater fluoride levels are usually in the range of 0.86 to 1.4 mg/L, and average 1.1 mg/L[5] (milligrams per litre or ppm - parts per million of fluorine by weight compared with water - effectively interchangeable terms). For comparison, chloride concentration in seawater is about 19 g/L (19000 ppm).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation

Quote:
In 2011 the World Health Organization suggested a level of fluoride from 0.5 to 1.5 mg/L (milligrams per litre), depending on climate, local environment, and other sources of fluoride.


ie the average fluoride levels in fluoridated tap water are about the same as seawater.

I am not going to hunt up information beyond the above. The concentration of fluoride in fluoridated water is not that high and it is a natural substance that can be found at higher concentrations without any real adverse impact.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The advocates of safety of fluoride in water were the ones who had a hand in the asbestos, tobacco and lead in petrol exercises. Drink all the fluoride you want, but don't force it on me by adding it to the water supply.

https://youtu.be/eBZRb-73tLc

Drinking seawater can be deadly for humans Rolling Eyes
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
The advocates of safety of fluoride in water were the ones who had a hand in the asbestos, tobacco and lead in petrol exercises.

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

Like documents from independent sources.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See the video

That flouride was safe was put forward by the aluminium industry, hardly independant.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is the independent source for this?

Where also are the sources to substantiate that they
Quote:
were the ones who had a hand in the asbestos, tobacco and lead in petrol exercises


There is no sense me wasting my time watching a video.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no sense me wasting my time responding to you. As others have found.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
There is no sense me wasting my time responding to you. As others have found.


Idea
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once got into a very similar argument with someone who was pro-fluoridation.

When I pointed out that fluoride wasn't extracted from waste-water before it was sent back into the rivers/fields/etc, and that (most of) it doesn't leave the body once ingested, he had a bit of a lightbulb moment.

I cheerfully brush my teeth with F toothpaste, but there, really, it should end. Glasgow is notorious for its poor people but the Scots, in their wisdom, have banned water fluoridation.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:

When I pointed out that fluoride wasn't extracted from waste-water before it was sent back into the rivers/fields/etc, and that (most of) it doesn't leave the body once ingested, he had a bit of a lightbulb moment.


It would be ludicrous to take fluoride out of rivers going into the the sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride
Quote:
Seawater fluoride levels are usually in the range of 0.86 to 1.4 mg/L, and average 1.1 mg/L[5] (milligrams per litre or ppm - parts per million of fluorine by weight compared with water - effectively interchangeable terms). For comparison, chloride concentration in seawater is about 19 g/L (19000 ppm). The low concentration of fluoride reflects the insolubility of the alkaline earth fluorides, e.g., CaF2.


On the other aspect you are factually wrong.
https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/fluoridation/en/l-2/2.htm
Quote:
There is no proved absorption in the mouth. When swallowed, fluoride is absorbed via the stomach and intestines, and passes rapidly round the body in the bloodstream. Peak blood levels appear in 30-60 minutes after swallowing. The most soluble fluoride compounds, such as sodium fluoride in water, tablets and toothpaste, are almost completely absorbed. The less soluble compounds with calcium, magnesium or aluminium are less well absorbed.

Once in the blood, fluoride is gradually removed via the kidneys, reducing to half its original level in between three and ten hours. The long-term blood level is influenced by daily exposure as well as by take-up in growing bone and release as old bone is broken down. Children clear fluoride about as rapidly as adults.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I get a gradual build up of fluoride in my polytunnels where all my drainage goes. It's bad enough with all the toothpaste that we use but adding it to our drinking water would see me go off grid with my water supply as well.
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