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Should the electoral roll be restricted to the educated only
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Should the electoral roll be restricted to the educated only?
Yes
18%
 18%  [ 3 ]
No
81%
 81%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 16

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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4097
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Should the electoral roll be restricted to the educated only Reply with quote

The successful victories of Leave and Donald Trump were led by the non-university educated elements of society who were, the argument goes, swayed by fake news and a lack of understanding of what they were voting for.

In a world where uneducated voters are voting by emotion rather than fact and against their own interest, is it time to reconsider the extension of the voting franchise towards the poorer socio-economic groups within society.

Restricting the electoral roll to the educated only would mean that Britain would have remained within the European Union and the world would have President Clinton the White House.

The logic of the argument that broad layers of the electorate are too stupid and ignorant to vote in their self-interest surely leads to the restriction of voting rights.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a huge difference between being educated and being intelligent.
Many an educated person is not smart enough to come in out of the rain while many poor people are highly intelligent but just did not have the money to go to a good school.
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clv101
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Should the electoral roll be restricted to the educated Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
The logic of the argument that broad layers of the electorate are too stupid and ignorant to vote in their self-interest surely leads to the restriction of voting rights.


It is 'an' argument'. But there would be a major issue of the powers that be screwing these newly disenfranchised people even more then they do already as they wouldn't even have to pretend to represent their interests.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to define"educated" before I can say which way I would vote.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a perfect world it would IMO be best to restrict voting to those with enough education and intelligence to understand the issues and vote responsibly.

Back in the real world it would be too problematic to decide whom is or is not intelligent and educated enough to vote, who is to decide and according to what criteria ?
Each side would claim that the selection process was rigged so as to favour the other lot.
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careful_eugene



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't it be better to force* would be politicians to only use honesty and truth when communicating with the electorate? That way it wouldn't matter whether voters were educated or not as it would be much easier to decide which choice was in their best interest.

(*I have no idea how to do this)
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

careful_eugene wrote:
(*I have no idea how to do this)

I think people need to concentrate more on working out for themselves what the truth is and to maintain an open mind accepting what they think is true may in fact not be so.

Inherently the media will wish to present things that their audience like to hear. That results in "alternative facts" being accepted when people should be more discerning, but you have on this forum an unwillingness to concentrate on what the truth really is. Some things are more certain than others, but many things are more more certain than people would pretend.

Open debate based upon rational analysis and the scientific method is the way forward.

On the topic of the OP I would make the point that I have seen a number of situations where adults mental capacity has been wrongly removed from them by the legal system. I am really uncomfortable with the idea of the state excluding people from the franchise because they do not satisfy criteria set by the state. At the moment very few people are excluded by state action. I would not wish to extend this.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsR4O4W0w
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 693

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each and every person is, at each and every moment, the sum total of innumerable biases. A person can't overcome these biases. A green party member will have different biases than someone working for bp for eg. Their experiences and aims in life will be different.

The 'best' we can do is to make decisions by evaluating possible consequences and being somewhat aware of our biases. Different people will choose differently.

The people proposing this have mistaken education for wisdom, and notions of good and bad for intelligence.

They want to merely restrict voting to those who are most similar to themselves.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

careful_eugene wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to force* would be politicians to only use honesty and truth when communicating with the electorate? That way it wouldn't matter whether voters were educated or not as it would be much easier to decide which choice was in their best interest.

(*I have no idea how to do this)

Several times I have proposed that candidates at debates be fitted with an electrode someplace very sensitive that would give them a good stiff jolt akin to a good electric fence every time they uttered a lie. Of course the person with their finger on the switch would become the most powerful individual in the country concerned but God I would like to try it one time just in retribution for all the crap they have dished out to me over the years. Twisted Evil
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John - thanks for that! Denise Richards was always my favorite actress as a teenage boy Smile

Regarding what kind of tests could be imposed, here are a few:

1) Basic literacy test on all citizens. Those who fail are struck of the electoral roll.

2) Minimum academic qualifications (at least 5 c's at GSCE) showing a basic educational level has been reached by adulthood. All adults who fail to have that educational minimum are barred from voting.

3) Restricting voting to property owners. we've done it before (18th century Britain) we can do it again. Property owners have a stake with society (they liberally own a bit of the country) and are therefore more responsible then non-home owning adults.

I do find it interesting that a small but significant number of those who have responded do support some kind of restrictions. It suggests to me that the support for the principle of universal suffrage is starting to drop.

My own personal view is that the wisdom of the masses (even the "uneducated masses") is far superior to the so-called wisdom of the educated elites. I would be totally opposed to any restrictions of the electoral roll based on education.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Little John - thanks for that! Denise Richards was always my favorite actress as a teenage boy Smile

Regarding what kind of tests could be imposed, here are a few:

1) Basic literacy test on all citizens. Those who fail are struck of the electoral roll.

2) Minimum academic qualifications (at least 5 c's at GSCE) showing a basic educational level has been reached by adulthood. All adults who fail to have that educational minimum are barred from voting.

3) Restricting voting to property owners. we've done it before (18th century Britain) we can do it again. Property owners have a stake with society (they liberally own a bit of the country) and are therefore more responsible then non-home owning adults.

I do find it interesting that a small but significant number of those who have responded do support some kind of restrictions. It suggests to me that the support for the principle of universal suffrage is starting to drop.

My own personal view is that the wisdom of the masses (even the "uneducated masses") is far superior to the so-called wisdom of the educated elites. I would be totally opposed to any restrictions of the electoral roll based on education.

You would deprive a man that lives in the city and rents an apartment the vote? That will go over like a fart in church down in the ghettos. Next you be wanting to take the vote from those silly females. Rolling Eyes
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read my post you would know that I am strongly opposed to any restrictions to the voting franchise. A poorly educated chav has far greater common sense then the over-educated idiots in our chattering classes.

However, if you were to restrict the voting franchise, restricting it to property owners is one way about it. Of course, it would not go down too well among sections of the public but this discussion is about the principle not whether it is politically doable.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should never be denied on the basis of property ownership since property ownership is just an indirect index of economic power. In other words, if voting was to be based on economic power, why bother with it at all? Why not simply do away with it completely and accept a society where absolute power affords absolute choice and a lack of power affords the opposite?

In other words, whilst the terms of the democratic process may vary from nation to nation based on historical practice, the franchise itself must be universal or it is not democracy.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that basis Little John democracy has only been a political fact in less then a century (the universal franchise didn't arrive until the interwar period for even the advanced West).

Interesting perspective...
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