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Swedish government reports warns of Islamist takeover
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Swedish government reports warns of Islamist takeover Reply with quote

http://www.thelocal.se/20170303/debate-rages-in-sweden-over-muslim-brotherhood-report

Quote:
A report commissioned by Sweden's Civil Contingencies Agency (MSB) to look into the influence of the Islamist organization the Muslim Brotherhood in the country has sparked debate, with a number of researchers disputing the methodology used and conclusions reached.

The report suggests that the Muslim Brotherhood is secretly leading Islamists in building a parallel society in Sweden by infiltrating organizations and political parties in the country.

It also claims that there is an "established structure of values among the country's political elite which stipulate how as a citizen you should approach 'minorities'".


In certain parts of Britain you are seeing the emergence of parallel societies which the recent British government integration report covered in depth.

Muslim Brotherhood are an Islamist movement and should be banned in the West. Lets hope President Trump does the necessary.
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jonny2mad



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4313014/Anti-aircraft-machineguns-MORTARS-seized-gang.html gang caught with 10,000 assault rifles heavy machine guns and mortars they were selling illegally in Spain France and Belgium

normal criminals don't want masses of those sorts of weapons, they dont need them to do a crime, and if caught with them get longer sentences.

people getting ready for civil wars like those sorts of weapons, I know this isn't Sweden but the same things happening around europe
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonny2mad wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4313014/Anti-aircraft-machineguns-MORTARS-seized-gang.html gang caught with 10,000 assault rifles heavy machine guns and mortars they were selling illegally in Spain France and Belgium

normal criminals don't want masses of those sorts of weapons, they dont need them to do a crime, and if caught with them get longer sentences.

people getting ready for civil wars like those sorts of weapons, I know this isn't Sweden but the same things happening around europe


If accurate, then this is a cause for considerable concern. However it is in a "news"paper of doubtful reputation.
Has this been reported in more reputable media? Very worrying if so.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
jonny2mad wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4313014/Anti-aircraft-machineguns-MORTARS-seized-gang.html gang caught with 10,000 assault rifles heavy machine guns and mortars they were selling illegally in Spain France and Belgium

normal criminals don't want masses of those sorts of weapons, they dont need them to do a crime, and if caught with them get longer sentences.

people getting ready for civil wars like those sorts of weapons, I know this isn't Sweden but the same things happening around europe


If accurate, then this is a cause for considerable concern. However it is in a "news"paper of doubtful reputation.
Has this been reported in more reputable media? Very worrying if so.

Is who reported it what matters or the truth of the report?
Considering the recent revelations of once respected news agencies twisting the truth to their own ends can any story be believed just by who tells it, or must we take it all with a pound of salt until confirmed by close and vigorous inspection? Rolling Eyes
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:

Is who reported it what matters or the truth of the report?

This is the eternal question of how trustworthy particular sources are. In the end it is nice to have the opportunity to go back to source. However, there are clearly sources of information that are more reliable and those that are less reliable.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The daily mail is a sensationalist tabloid newspaper whose main function is to sell newspapers (surprise). The credibility of the story is not the primary function. For most of 2016 they were telling about the forthcoming winter in the UK and saying it would be the worst for decades. It was hardly noticeable as it turned out.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:

Is who reported it what matters or the truth of the report?

This is the eternal question of how trustworthy particular sources are. In the end it is nice to have the opportunity to go back to source. However, there are clearly sources of information that are more reliable and those that are less reliable.

Is not the question then which is witch?
Some sources that have for centuries been the guardians of the truth have now been exposed as purveyors of falsehoods in support of their agenda. Perhaps they always had such agendas but kept them well hidden , or their focus was popular with the masses and needed no protection but today has become the plaything of the few. .
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find Wikipedia reasonably good as a source of information that is tested, but not always reliable. Organisational websites can be quite good for hard facts.

Judicial judgments are a good source of information although one should be aware that they are not perfect, can misunderstand things and also will at times leave out things that should really be included (particularly in the Family Division - I have not seen this much in other divisions). After all they don't want to be criticised as to their decisions on the basis of the information in their judgment.

Otherwise the MSM is not bad. People such as guido fawkes tend to be accurate on facts even if I don't agree with their analysis.

There are times when the MSM is systemically awful (notwithstanding their different views). They all like good stories and hence have a bias towards a good story even if it is not accurate.

A good example of that bias is when the MSM misrepresented trumps comments on Sweden. This started with a misunderstanding and developed legs if itself.

Criticising the Daily Mail for some "inaccurate weather forecast" reporting is not a valid criticism as long as they reported the "inaccurate weather forecasts" accurately.
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only major UK paper that is not owned and largely subsidised by the very rich is the Guardian, which is largely funded by a charitable trust. It is also one of only two left of centre papers, and the only one aimed at the educated.

In the internet age, it is almost impossible to make money by reporting the world, and news has become entertainment and the play thing of the rich and their more or less hidden mouth piece.

These days you need to find a wide range of information sources and the most powerful in the world are google and facebook.
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Automaton



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez guys... why the usual.blah blah blah when you could just have looked it up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39264664

(Not that you can trust the BBC either though, of course, but it's mildly more believable than the DM)

Hell, who knows; with just a little bit of effort, maybe the thread would even stay on topic!
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adam2
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automaton wrote:
Geez guys... why the usual.blah blah blah when you could just have looked it up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39264664

(Not that you can trust the BBC either though, of course, but it's mildly more believable than the DM)

Hell, who knows; with just a little bit of effort, maybe the thread would even stay on topic!


Good point.
I find this news to be very alarming, the numbers and types of weapons are sufficient for a medium size army, 10,000 rifles and some thousands of other firearms, anti aircraft guns and huge numbers of mortar bombs.

As has already been posted, ordinary criminals have no need for such numbers of guns. Just how many guns do you need to hold up a bank or murder enemies ? Only a few, and maybe a few dozen stored for future use.

Weaponry on this scale suggests to me that either an organised assault on a whole small country was planned, or perhaps multiple and frequently repeated terrorist attacks. How many guns did the terrorists use in the Bataclan concert hall attack ? IIRC it was only about half a dozen. So this hoard would suffice for THOUSANDS of such attacks.

It is of course entirely possible that those from whom these weapons have been seized are ordinary criminals without any links to any terrorist group, and they only intended to sell them profitably.
A large terrorist group would seem to be the most likely purchaser in that case.
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careful_eugene



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the original post, has anyone read the report? I can only find it in the original Swedish. A couple of devils advocate questions assuming the report is correct:
Could "infiltration" really mean integration? When an outsider joins a community, we want them to integrate and contribute. If a group of people with different views decides to hold themselves apart from the rest and demand special treatment or that others modify their behaviour, there is likely to be conflict. By getting involved with the society, it becomes possible to influence the direction of that society which is what appears to be happening here.
How organised is this process? Is there a real effort to steer society towards a set of rules / way of life more in line with Islam?
Should we try and stop a group that wants to change society for religious or any other reasons?
How can we stop them if their activities aren't illegal?
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jonny2mad



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another story that stuck me from two years ago http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

This was just after they caught the man with the ak47 on a train getting ready to shoot hundreds of people and before the batalan theater attack .

its says french army training to win back national territory thats not terrorism thats someone trying to set up a state in france .

Then they did raids in france and found 334 guns including a rocket launcher some hidden in mosques with jihadi literature .

And careful-eugene if you think the group is taking the country in a bad driection even doing it peacefully you fight them by any means you can.

Because when they have the power they will oppress you
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Lord Beria3



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/stockholm-recoils-terrorist-attack/

A good article on the Spectator on the terror attack today and the wider problems facing Sweden.

Shouldn't be any surprise to most of us on the forum although a few remain in denial.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Shouldn't be any surprise to most of us on the forum although a few remain in denial.

I presume that it is criticism of me for having the view that not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all people are terrorists. The vast majority of people and the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists.

Daesh do need sorting out. Whether Trump's missile attack on the Assad regime will assist in sorting out Daesh or not remains to be seem. (There are arguments on both sides of this).

The question is what policy changes we should implement to reduce the problems of terrorism. The first part of this is understanding what motiviates people. If people are willing to die more extreme punishments will have no effect.

I am assuming that the Swedish attack is one motivated by Daesh.
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