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Westminster Terror Attack
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4104
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, do you accept that certain commandments within the Koran would justify the actions of the Taliban, ISIS and other jihadi groups?
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are probably interpretations that would allow some of the actions to be justified. It depends really on who is doing the interpreting. People often can stretch documents to justify what they want to do.

You can see this in certain legal judgments.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no stretching of "interpretation" required in the Quran.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 595
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My copy of the Koran in English came from a dude in Redditch. There is nothing ambiguous in any of it. They want us dead. Funny how John lives opposite a mosque in Brum, hobnobs with them, but can't find a copy himself.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a number of copies. In English and Arabic.
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jonny2mad



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2422
Location: weston super mare

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
jonny2mad wrote:
you dont get it.

They are not fighting for tribal reasons or because of you bombing them they are fighting because of ideology a belief system.


I have a view that they are fighting because they want to fight and they justify this using their own analysis of their belief system.

You have a view that if they were not Muslims they would not fight.

To test the merits of both positions
you need to consider whether it is human being is general that have a tendency from time to time to fight and whether tribal societies are more inclined to tribal battles or whether Muslims more generally are the people that fight and everyone else is a happy bunny bouncing around in the grass not fighting at all.

I have provided evidence that people of all religions can end up in wars and that the behaviour of ISIS is linked to tribal conflicts and gang warfare moreso than any one religion.

You have not contradicted this.

I see the gangsters as the enemy. You argue it is all the members of a particular religion and that particular religion. To that extent you are falling into the trap of tribal emotions.

Terrorist attacks make people angry. This creates a gut reaction of wanting to strike out. It is important, however, to strike out at the people who are responsible and not random innocent people.


I think all muslims are the problem mainly because they have their own legal system and system of government . And because a number of times muslims have attempted to invade europe and conquer it . they are doing it now with your help.

The awful people the britains first's the fascists wouldnt let this happen but the nice people the "liberals " would

you will not integrete islam your going to end up with a society that becomes more and more like iran or afghanistan or saudi, honestly do you think people who fought in world war two thought a generation later people would do this
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jonny2mad



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: weston super mare

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The president of turkey is he a gangster, he recently told muslims in europe have 5 children thats the way to be revenged on europe . Thats not blowing people up or stabbing them .
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I oppose a migration free for all.
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jonny2mad



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
I oppose a migration free for all.


Sorry not enough, the uk muslim population doubles every decade thats the situation by 2050 if something isnt done london will be majority muslim game over

Thats the problem. '

I would talk to tommy robinson or geert wilders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzEUPXqwSEI
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4104
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonny2mad, please remind John of some of the commandments which quite clearly tell the followers of Islam on what to do infidels.

Seems like John needs educating...
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jonny2mad



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/preacher_to_despot.htm

I helped out on that site for years
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the article starts
Quote:
There are many contradictory verses in the Quran that can be quite confusing. This ambiguity allows Muslims to have their personalized “divine guidance” based on their own preferences.


Generally religious doctrines do have a certain amount of ambiguity and then people can stretch them to what they feel like.

You, for example, exaggerate the growth in the Muslim population of the UK and fail to identify the effects if migration or natural growth. That is because you wish to justify your case.
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jonny2mad



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1961 ...50,000 ...46,196,000 ...0.11 ... 7 ...7,143
1971 ...226,000 ...49,152,000 ...0.46 ...30 ..7,533
1981 ...553,000 ...49,634,000 ...1.11 ...149 ...3,711
1991 ...950,000 ...51,099,000 ...1.86 ...443 ...2,144
2001 ...1,600,000 ...52,042,000 ...3.07 ...614 ..2,606
2011 ...2,706,000 ...56,076,000 ...4.83 ...1,500 ..1,912
2014 (est ...3,047,000 – ...5.4 1,750 .1,741


first is year, second number of muslims in the uk, third uk population percentage population then number of mosques and people per mosque



https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/01/10/the-islamic-future-of-britain-by-the-year-2050-britain-will-be-a-majority-muslim-nation-2/

personally I dont think the uk will be majority muslim by 2050 but london will be, the rest of the country will be later than that .
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ie although going up, not doubling every decade and no analysis of the element that is migration
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jonny2mad



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: weston super mare

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my dad lived in saudi and bahrain, Iran was touted as a western modern majority muslim state, then turkey was, look where its heading and what iran became, Sorry if I doubt your going to have some sort of liberal country with this change of demographics

My sisters off to the states to marry a american and wants me to go with her. my dad who knew more about islam that you will ever know phoned me up before he died and said come quick I need to talk to you, "jonny get out of europe its doomed. sail to the south seas jonny" but he would have thought america better than staying here because polititians betrayed him and what his generation did.
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"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler


Last edited by jonny2mad on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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