PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Greer, Kunstler, Martenson, Morris and Orlov
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5667
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Greer, Kunstler, Martenson, Morris and Orlov Reply with quote

Quite a line up for discussion

well worth a watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOFc0ZEmaHI

I have completely changed my opinion 180 degrees vis a vis Greer from the days when I first started reading his blog. He REALLY gets it.

I am also very impressed with Frank Morris. I had never heard of him up to this point
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Greer, Kunstler, Martenson, Morris and Orlov Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
He REALLY gets it.


Yes. Not just sociopolitically either. He REALLY gets the religious-philosophical stuff also, which is a good job since he's an archdruid...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5667
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has come closer than any one I know or have read to cause me to question the foundation of my "rationalist" world view.

These three recent articles have properly bent my brain:

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/the-world-as-representation.html

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/the-world-as-will.html

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/a-muddle-of-mind-and-matter.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
He has come closer than any one I know or have read to cause me to question the foundation of my "rationalist" world view.

These three recent articles have properly bent my brain:

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/the-world-as-representation.html

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/the-world-as-will.html

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/a-muddle-of-mind-and-matter.html


I have not read those articles (I will get round to it at some point). But I'm glad your brain is being bent, and that you put "rationalist" in quotes. Believing that minds arise from brains is not rational. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7636

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read his 'Dark Age America' over christmas (gave it to my father!), recommended, especially the chapter on science.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 693

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi littlejohn, you should also read David Quinn's wisdom of the infinite (free to read and easily found on Google). https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyg5wptv7o1owxo/WotI.pdf?dl=0

I don't know your current mind, and haven't read the links or watched the video etc. But the book above is very good. Relatively short and easy to read. Very rational Smile

I'll also say that reasoning by yourself to the 'truth' is important. The most important.

Reason and logic. Can you trust anything else?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oobers



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Hebden Bridge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - an excellent discussion and refreshing to have that format rather than pitching opposed views against each other. They all broadly agreed about our predicament and had interesting perspectives on it and about what to do next.

It got me thinking - who would you get on a UK panel to discuss such things from a UK perspective? Do we have people of this sort who would go on tape to say this stuff straight? And where are the women saying these things?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13974
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Greer, Kunstler, Martenson, Morris and Orlov Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Quite a line up for discussion

well worth a watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOFc0ZEmaHI

I have completely changed my opinion 180 degrees vis a vis Greer from the days when I first started reading his blog. He REALLY gets it.

I am also very impressed with Frank Morris. I had never heard of him up to this point


101% fascinating conversation; listening/watching just now. Not a beard fan though Laughing
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snail wrote:
Hi littlejohn, you should also read David Quinn's wisdom of the infinite (free to read and easily found on Google). https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyg5wptv7o1owxo/WotI.pdf?dl=0

I don't know your current mind, and haven't read the links or watched the video etc. But the book above is very good. Relatively short and easy to read. Very rational Smile

I'll also say that reasoning by yourself to the 'truth' is important. The most important.

Reason and logic. Can you trust anything else?


Also, on reading material, I believe this book will one day be recognised as a game-changer. It signals the beginning of the end of materialistic naturalism being the dominant model of reality. Thomas Nagel is the first scientific atheist to publicly admit that the existence of consciousness causes such severe problems to "Materialist neo-Darwinism", that they will eventually be recognised as fatal. The problem of consciousness isn't just a problem for neuroscience and philosophy - when its consequences are examined carefully, it turns out we are also going to have to rethink cosmology and evolution, among other things.

https://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Mind-Cosmos-Materialist-Neo-Darwinian-Conception/dp/0199919755
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oobers wrote:
Do we have people of this sort who would go on tape to say this stuff straight?


One or two. Paul Kingsnorth comes to mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13974
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oobers wrote:
And where are the women saying these things?


Naomi Klein, Vandana Shiva, Gail Tverberg. And several non-famous women I know personally. They're out there, outnumbered by crass white males.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oobers



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Hebden Bridge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
oobers wrote:
Do we have people of this sort who would go on tape to say this stuff straight?


One or two. Paul Kingsnorth comes to mind.


Ah yes. And his friend George Monbiot. They disagree on what is to be done but Monbiot could usefully take the Frank Morris role, retaining some optimism for the public policy possibilities. I think this would be important to ground the discussion in a place recognisable to a wide audience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13974
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner might enjoy the bit following 1:18:13
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4104
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent video.

Really found it interesting and Greer was by far the best.

It's been so good that I have circulated it to a few friends, hopefully they will wake up!
_________________
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1453

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
oobers wrote:
Do we have people of this sort who would go on tape to say this stuff straight?


One or two. Paul Kingsnorth comes to mind.


Talking of Mr Kingsnorth here is his latest:

Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist

Paul Kingsnorth wrote:
This desperate scrabble for sustainable development was in reality the same old same old. People I had thought were on my side were arguing aggressively for the industrializing of wild places in the name of human desire. This was the same rootless, distant destruction that had led me to the top of Twyford Down. Only now there seemed to be some kind of crude equation at work that allowed them to believe this was something entirely different. Motorway through downland: bad. Wind power station on downland: good. Container port wiping out estuary mudflats: bad. Renewable hydropower barrage wiping out estuary mudflats: good. Destruction minus carbon equals sustainability.

So here I was again: a Luddite, a NIMBY, a reactionary, a romantic; standing in the way of progress. I realized that I was dealing with environmentalists with no attachment to any actual environment. Their talk was of parts-per-million of carbon, peer-reviewed papers, sustainable technologies, renewable supergrids, green growth, and the fifteenth conference of the parties. There were campaigns about the planet and the Earth, but there was no specificity: no sign of any real, felt attachment to any small part of that Earth.

_________________
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group