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London Tower Block Blaze
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wtf is a "private' visit to a disaster by the country's "leader"?
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-theresa-may-visit-jeremy-corbyn-resident-london-kensington-a7791726.html

"The Prime Minister carried out a private visit of the scene and spoke with emergency service crews but reportedly refused to meet any survivors of the tragedy and blocked media access.

The decision was taken due to "security reasons", it was claimed, but local residents were furious that she did not stop to listen to their concerns............ A Downing Street spokesperson refused to comment on why Ms May did not meet with residents."

Anybody care to speculate?
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She didn't see any resident cos if she had they would have torn a her a new one. In other words, she, or her advisers, decided the bad publicity from not seeing residents was not as bad as the bad publicity of being massively called out by them in person on camera.

She was probably right.
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
wtf is a "private' visit to a disaster by the country's "leader"?


It is a visit not announced beforehand to the media or to anyone else. In the past it might also have meant "and therefore not liable to be photographed" but these days most everyone has a camera phone, and in this case the media were almost certainly present anyway, though not specifically expecting the PM.
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I see so the only reason she went at all was to cynically try and bolster her own position as far as possible with no real concern for any involved in this disaster.

It must be some sort of record to have adopted a bunker mentality insulating her even further from reality so soon after an election. I am not sure if she actually understands what leadership means and that the buck stops with her.

I don't think it is possible to exaggerate the magnitude of the can of worms surrounding this and they all lead back to the tory party in various guises and their chums.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5266
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:

I don't think it is possible to exaggerate the magnitude of the can of worms surrounding this and they all lead back to the tory party in various guises and their chums.

I expect there is plenty of blame that belongs to both parties.
It is most sad that you have to examine the facts of the matter over the charred bones of children. To get to the truth of the matter one has to set aside their own prejudices as much as possible and concentrate on the truths presented by the actual evidence.
I have a very strong opinion about this based on the media I have seen to date.
I know that is a very preliminary opinion based on incomplete facts. I would reverse my opinion if presented sufficient evidence to the contrary.
I realize that many people can not reverse an opinion after it is presented to the public, not wanting to admit to an error, so are hindered in the pursuit of the truth.
How to keep these people off juries is the question.
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Police open criminal investigation over choice of cladding material. It appears to have been a type banned in the us some years ago. I suspect the heating system was also a major factor. Daily mail blames the greens for encouraging installation of external insulation at all.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theresa May has called a Public Enquiry with such rapidity because in a public enquiry the people of Grenfell Tower will not be able to ask questions and the scope of the enquiry is completely politically controlled from start to finish. In others, words, you can bet it will be designed not to uncover the facts. But, the very opposite. A cover-up. At least in terms of apportioning direct responsibility to individuals or organisations.

What the people of Grenfell Tower need to be demanding, and what the rest of us need to back them up on, is a call for an inquest. An inquest is completely outside of the control of the government. Its jury is pulled from ordinary members of the public, its verdict is completely outside of political control and finally, the people of Grenfell towers will be able to ask their own questions.

What does Theresa May know that she does not want the rest of us to know?
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also suspect the heating system, I doubt that a presumably wet central heating system was DIRECTLY the cause of the fire starting or spreading, but would strongly suspect fire spread via all the holes made in fire barriers.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
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Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a tower block, only the lowest floors should need any extra insulation as higher floors receive heat from below. Presumably on the hottest London night of the year, everyone was sweltering with every window and stairwell door propped open. Throw in a load of dysfuntionals and 3rd world grafters who happen to cook at midnight..

Playing the guessing game, if the cladding was flammable plastic and aluminium that may have been coated to avoid tarnishing for some megalomaniac executive choice, then a thermite coated building would give the gulf war effect we all saw on the film.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are people "dysfunctional" because they live in social housing?

And what the F--k has where these people came from got to do with anything?
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1809

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
I also suspect the heating system, I doubt that a presumably wet central heating system was DIRECTLY the cause of the fire starting or spreading, but would strongly suspect fire spread via all the holes made in fire barriers.


The reports I have heard was that it was a fridge that exploded which was the cause of the blaze.
Which? have been campaigning about exploding tumble driers - that is another major concern for residents of tower blocks
The point you made, Adam, fits into what one of the survivors interviewed on BBC Breakfast said - that there were blue flames which he believed was gas fuelled fire going up the building.
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="vtsnowedin"]
Potemkin Villager wrote:



How to keep these people off juries is the question.


And a very telling question.

Perhaps limit them to male landowners and rentiers over 30?

I will ignore the rest of this condescending bot like "reply".

If this disaster had occurred on a private apartment development in posher South Kensington, St Johns Wood or wherever the blessed St Teresa would have been all over them. There is going to be a huge battle to close down any chance at getting at the truth and finding some patsy to dump the blame on.
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
Police open criminal investigation over choice of cladding material. It appears to have been a type banned in the us some years ago. I suspect the heating system was also a major factor. Daily mail blames the greens for encouraging installation of external insulation at all.

Typical of the Daily Hate - the Torygraph is at it as well - doing their shift the blame culture from those who are directly culpable.
Non-flammable insulation is also available.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2159

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Theresa May has called a Public Enquiry with such rapidity

Almost certainly because she does not want the opposition to call for it first.
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