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London Tower Block Blaze
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 782
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tory enthusiasm for light touch regulation is not limited to building regs but extends across all areas. According to Andrea Loathsome :-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/04/andrea-leadsom-vows-to-scrap-eu-red-tape-for-farmers-after-brexit

" However, the bulk of her address focused on what Leadsom argued was a “big potential win for farmers” through a promised bonfire of EU regulations on agriculture. (sic)

“No more 6ft EU billboards littering the landscape,” she said. “No more existential debates to determine what counts as a bush, a hedge, or a tree. And no more ridiculous, bureaucratic three-crop rule.

“By cutting the red tape that comes out of Brussels, we will free our farmers to grow more, sell more and export more great British food..."

And it drones on and on in the same vein.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4104
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
I'm surprised that no photo journalist has not gone through one or more of the other towers with a building and fire inspector in tow and produced an expose piece of the current conditions for the evening news.
LB why replace them on "brown fields"? Would you want to raise your children on polluted grounds that had supposedly been cleaned up by contractors supervised by an incompetent government?
If you want energy efficient walk-able communities Then you want more high rises not less with the ground floors containing retail and commercial establishments and other floors providing community services such as schools and health clinics.


Skyscrapers, high rise buildings... none of this is sustainable as we enter into the decline and end of our civilization. Better off building Georgian style estates which last for centuries and look far nicer.

As a first step, we should develop what brownfield sites are left (after removing the pollutants obviously) as we should try and protect as far as possible the green belt. After all, that is potential future farmland which Britain will need as energy supplies shrink in the coming decades.

This also shows how critical it is to gain control of our borders. Too many people are in the country and we must manage our borders with an intelligent migration policy.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5667
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's already far too late to build Georgian type estates. The kind of materials and labour involved in building such over-engineered real estate would make it prohibitively expensive to build.

In that sense, we have already long-since passed peak resources(and certainly peak wealth) such that there are now a number of infrastructural choices already quite unavailable to us. We are already living off past infrastructural investment that can never be replaced, or at least replaced with like for like in terms of longevity.

We are living off the inherited wealth of our ancestors and the borrowed wealth of our descendants. The former will not last forever and the latter will never come.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
I'm surprised that no photo journalist has not gone through one or more of the other towers with a building and fire inspector in tow and produced an expose piece of the current conditions for the evening news.
LB why replace them on "brown fields"? Would you want to raise your children on polluted grounds that had supposedly been cleaned up by contractors supervised by an incompetent government?
If you want energy efficient walk-able communities Then you want more high rises not less with the ground floors containing retail and commercial establishments and other floors providing community services such as schools and health clinics.


Skyscrapers, high rise buildings... none of this is sustainable as we enter into the decline and end of our civilization. Better off building Georgian style estates which last for centuries and look far nicer.

As a first step, we should develop what brownfield sites are left (after removing the pollutants obviously) as we should try and protect as far as possible the green belt. After all, that is potential future farmland which Britain will need as energy supplies shrink in the coming decades.

This also shows how critical it is to gain control of our borders. Too many people are in the country and we must manage our borders with an intelligent migration policy.
At present you have less then 1.4 percent of your population engaged in agriculture which is even less then the USA's 1.6 percent. The only thing you need to do is not put the next high rise or Georgian estate (I have no idea what those look like)on farm land that is in production today while a hillside too steep to be harvested by modern equipment at the edge of the field is left in scrub woodland.
The bigger question is, will you build or allocate housing space to refugees that want to change the way things are in the UK?
You could not devise a housing situation so draconian that refugee mothers wish to return to the middle east with their children in tow.
So that leads to you solving the problem of who to let in and who to let drown in the surf (yes it will get down to that) and I have yet to hear any leader from any country that has a good way to sort them out.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 883
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
It's already far too late to build Georgian type estates. The kind of materials and labour involved in building such over-engineered real estate would make it prohibitively expensive to build.

In that sense, we have already long-since passed peak resources(and certainly peak wealth) such that there are now a number of infrastructural choices already quite unavailable to us. We are already living off past infrastructural investment that can never be replaced, or at least replaced with like for like in terms of longevity.

We are living off the inherited wealth of our ancestors and the borrowed wealth of our descendants. The former will not last forever and the latter will never come.


+1
Britain is crowded and getting more so....
The availability of brownfield land is limited and mostly in the wrong places.
We'd be crazy to concrete over green belt, build on floodplains etc., but we're still doing it.....

Solutions are very thin in the ground.....
They must partly rely on controlling/reducing population....
They must include redeveloping brownfield land where possible (financial incentives)
They must include increasing availability - clamping down on holiday homes, empty properties, encouraging big properties to be split into flats etc. (financial controls/incentives)....
They must include increasing population density, which unfortunately means building upwards (safely).....
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3384

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

Britain is crowded and getting more so....
The availability of brownfield land is limited and mostly in the wrong places.
We'd be crazy to concrete over green belt, build on floodplains etc., but we're still doing it.....

Solutions are very thin in the ground.....
They must partly rely on controlling/reducing population....
They must include redeveloping brownfield land where possible (financial incentives)
They must include increasing availability - clamping down on holiday homes, empty properties, encouraging big properties to be split into flats etc. (financial controls/incentives)....
They must include increasing population density, which unfortunately means building upwards (safely).....


Population control was doing well in the 1960s, but the religious faction stuck their oar in and declared it was immoral to restrict womens' rights to have any number of children. Funding for population control was cut then, just as it has been recently cut by that idiot trump.

Brown field sites are generally more species diverse than the greenfield agri deserts. Yes the fields are green quite a lot of the time, but the farmers aim is to kill everything except the crop they want to grow.

Clamping down on holiday homes is unlikely as the rich b**t**ds are the ones that can afford them. The VAT rules are such that buildings are unlikely to be split as the VAT is totally allowable on new build but not on refurbs, courtesy Gordon Brown MP.

Increasing population density is a horrific option for most people. Some like the idea, but it causes social strife.

I don't have any dislike of the options you suggest, it's just unlikely to happen. There is a control mechanism taking place at present, it's called the NHS. The people that work in it don't deliberately try to cause problems, but the modus operandi is to identify any normal trait in people as a disease, hypertension, cholesterol, pre-diabetes, then prescribe nasty drugs that cause other problems, so they then need more drugs. The food industry does its bit by feeding people on cheap, low fat carbs and polyunsaturated oils, while telling them it is healthy, supported of course by the uncaring government, which is now working its socks off to ensure that the residents of flaming tower blocks will get the blame if at all possible. (this weeks PRIVATE EYE has an article on the history of this farce).
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4104
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greer has written that nature will solve the population problem this century. Collapsing public heath will drive deaths up and lower birth rates and the drop in population will be dramatic within 2 generations.

We over exaggerate the impact of financial crisis but underestimate the impact of poor public health. Just look at Russian demographics after the collapse of the USSR.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just have to look at the US and the number of deaths involving prescribed drugs and procedures.

One of many reports
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12469
Location: York

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Greer has written that nature will solve the population problem this century. Collapsing public heath will drive deaths up and lower birth rates

Wrong.
With no contraception and no terminations... need I go on?
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russia's birthrate fell from 2.22 in 1987 to 1.38 in 1993.

Relatively small changes to death and birth rates can have a major impact on population over several decades.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
You just have to look at the US and the number of deaths involving prescribed drugs and procedures.

One of many reports


One talk (by a doctor) on leading causes of death put 'doctors' at fifth. Laughing
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5267
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Council meeting abandoned when the press got an injunction to force access. BBC reports the council chose cheaper Non zinc cladding to save £300k. The cladding company are planning to sue the council for misrepresentation leading to loss of business.

Not looking good for the council.
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 782
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
Council meeting abandoned when the press got an injunction to force access. BBC reports the council chose cheaper Non zinc cladding to save £300k. The cladding company are planning to sue the council for misrepresentation leading to loss of business.

Not looking good for the council.


Arogant cowards hiding from scrutiny and the public in their huge Ceaușescu like luxury bunker. What a shower of useless plonkers.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cladding company should be sued for using inappropriate materials, regardless of any implied regulatory permissions. They did the job, they take the rap.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if the cladding company told the council that whilst the one chosen was, although just about "legal", they did not recommend it. But, the council told them that if they wanted the contract, then that was the one they must use?

I am not excusing what portion of blame should be apportioned to the cladding company and I am certainly not excusing the council. But, the problem is systemic.

This is what neo-liberalism looks like.

What our rulers will want, above all other things, is for individual players in that system to take the rap as opposed to the system itself (as well as its architects) in which those players operate. The terms of the enquiry that have been leaked this far are already pointing to its remit being limited to players and not to the system.
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