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London Tower Block Blaze
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3376

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing to do with neo liberalism, whatever that may mean, it's just opportunistic greed and buck passing. The cladding company could have walked away from a dodgy deal, instead they kept their fingers crossed and trousered the proceeds. Well it hit the fan..............
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5666
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you see nothing systemically inherent in this terrible incident then?

Seriously?
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1969

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a competitive regulatory regime for building control is something that needs looking at.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3376

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
So you see nothing systemically inherent in this terrible incident then?

Seriously?


Those are your words not mine. The system is run on opportunistic greed.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 883
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
Having a competitive regulatory regime for building control is something that needs looking at.


Really ???
Competition for Regulation ??
Oooh, should I choose to be regulated by the Building Inspector or the Inspector of Buildings...?
Or the HSE or the EHS for Safety...?
Or the EA or AE for Environment.....?

If I understand you correctly, that suggestion is your most bonkers yet....
It would only result in more bureaucracy, more uncertainty and confusion...

Is that really being considered at Westminster......?
What is actually required is more support/resources/teeth for the existing Regulators...
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 565
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We already have competition for building control - NHBC do it for large housebuilders do it I think.

From https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Approved_inspector

Quote:
The building regulations require that a projects compliance with the regulations is independently verified. Historically this verification could only be given by local authorities, however, it can now also be provided by a privately appointed approved inspector.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1969

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think a competitive regime is good. Hence it needs looking at in order to stop it.
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clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7632

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
Having a competitive regulatory regime for building control is something that needs looking at.


As someone in the middle of a building project I was pleased to be able to use a private building control company rather than the local council. This has enabled us to work with an inspector personally familiar with the 'non-standard' materials and methods we're employing. We believe we're getting a better service than the council would have provided.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1969

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:
Having a competitive regulatory regime for building control is something that needs looking at.


As someone in the middle of a building project I was pleased to be able to use a private building control company rather than the local council. This has enabled us to work with an inspector personally familiar with the 'non-standard' materials and methods we're employing. We believe we're getting a better service than the council would have provided.


I am sure that the contractors working on Grenfell tower were pleased that their project was approved because the regulators were worried about losing business.

There are always balances in these sorts of issues and I think the balance has moved too far in the direction of undermining building control itself.

It may be that having specialisms has merit, but it still needs looking at.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 883
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:

I am sure that the contractors working on Grenfell tower were pleased that their project was approved because the regulators were worried about losing business.
There are always balances in these sorts of issues and I think the balance has moved too far in the direction of undermining building control itself.
It may be that having specialisms has merit, but it still needs looking at.


John, apologies....
I didn't know there was already competition...., your original post read to me like you supported introducing it....
The current situation sounds flawed..., especially if the client pays.....
If the LAs weren't operating well beforehand, they should have been trained/developed, rather than setting up parallel systems.....

On a subject I know more about, there's a similar situation for accreditations such as ISO9001, ISO14001 etc.
The client pays the external Accreditation Body (BSI, SGS etc.), hence they very rarely find anything seriously wrong....
Also, with auditing Financial Accounts - KPMG, PWC etc. never seem to spot major flaws...., especially with the banks.... the 'get out clause' is always that auditing is only a sampling exercise....
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3376

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard a politician dick brain on the lunch time BBC today say "no one could have predicted this ........" referring to the Grenfell tower blaze.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1969

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly enough parliament predicted problems with cladding.
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