PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Merkel fears a mega-migration from Africa of up to 100m
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5636
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the "aid" is about opening markets to exploit and has little to do with helping those countries to be self sustainable.

Additionally, many of those same countries are already well into population overshoot, which is one of the underlying reasons, if not the underlying reason, behind the growing migrations.

In which case, one has to ask the question, what exactly is much of that that aid for? To help those countries continue on the path of unsustainable economic and population growth? All that will do is make their ecological rebalancing all the harder. And it is already proving to be a horror show as it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Most of the "aid" is about opening markets to exploit and has little to do with helping those countries to be self sustainable.

Another statement which is not evidence based.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5636
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
Little John wrote:
Most of the "aid" is about opening markets to exploit and has little to do with helping those countries to be self sustainable.

Another statement which is not evidence based.
Talking out of your arse, as usual

https://www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/david-sogge/inconvenient-truth-about-foreign-aid

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/review/13/07/bandyopadhyay.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:
Little John wrote:
Most of the "aid" is about opening markets to exploit and has little to do with helping those countries to be self sustainable.

Another statement which is not evidence based.
Talking out of your arse, as usual

https://www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/david-sogge/inconvenient-truth-about-foreign-aid

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/review/13/07/bandyopadhyay.pdf

I have looked at those. I would not deny that some aid has trade benefits, but I would state again that you don't have evidence to justify your statement.

Your statement is that "Most" (ie the majority) of the aid is "about opening markets to exploit".

It is easy to substantiate this if you have the evidence. Those articles don't substantiate.

I accept that some of the aid is wasted and there is a rush to spend money to hit the target which is silly. I also accept that we should not be funding India with their space programme. Incidentally that is a valid criticism of the EU as it is our funding that goes via the EU to India that is wrong.

However, your basic statement does not have quantitative evidence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9775
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard someone suggest on TV, Question Time I think, that we should provide a school for every village in Africa as part of our aid. That would certainly reduce the population growth and would probably be the best use for our aid funds.
_________________
BLOG

"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
I heard someone suggest on TV, Question Time I think, that we should provide a school for every village in Africa as part of our aid. That would certainly reduce the population growth and would probably be the best use for our aid funds.

It the sort of silly statement that looks simplistically at Africa assumes it is all undeveloped and there is no education system or anything.

If aid is to be of any use, and I accept there are many valid criticisms of the aid system, then it has to be provided subtly to achieve objectives.

I am actually quite sceptical about much of the way in which DFiD works.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4097
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely dishing out condoms and contraception would be cheaper then building village schools across Africa.
_________________
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4249
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Surely dishing out condoms and contraception would be cheaper then building village schools across Africa.

Perhaps cheaper but not as cost effective on a long term basis. Once educated people stay educated and use the knowledge to their advantage throughout their lives.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8581
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Merkel fears a mega-migration from Africa of up to 100m Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:


100 million.


And the rest. Why would it stop at 100 million? It will stop when one of two things happens.

(1) Europe ceases to look more appealing than Africa.
(2) Europe forcibly halts migration from Africa.

Except (1) isn't going to happen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4249
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can dance around it all you want but it still comes down to the sharks in the Mediterranean eating very well at some time in the not too distant future.
The only question is , how much disruption to your local societies and economies will you tolerate before turning the guns on the refugee boats?
And perhaps more interesting , How will you treat those that you have already let in once you close the doors?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8581
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
You can dance around it all you want but it still comes down to the sharks in the Mediterranean eating very well at some time in the not too distant future.
The only question is , how much disruption to your local societies and economies will you tolerate before turning the guns on the refugee boats?
And perhaps more interesting , How will you treat those that you have already let in once you close the doors?


There is no clear idea what "you" means in the above post.

See: brexit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4249
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
You can dance around it all you want but it still comes down to the sharks in the Mediterranean eating very well at some time in the not too distant future.
The only question is , how much disruption to your local societies and economies will you tolerate before turning the guns on the refugee boats?
And perhaps more interesting , How will you treat those that you have already let in once you close the doors?


There is no clear idea what "you" means in the above post.

See: brexit.

"You" would be the citizens of the UK and their government.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13958
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
...... dealing with dictatorships and corruption, ending military adventures etc. ........
Sow>reap.


Are not those phrases and actions mutually exclusive?


Dictatorships and corruption can be tackled without resort to violence.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5636
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to think of an example that did/does not include violence or the very real threat of it - be it internal or external E. And I am having some difficulty.

I'm sure there will be one, but it would help if you could point one out to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13958
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
I'm trying to think of an example that did/does not include violence or the very real threat of it - be it internal or external E. And I am having some difficulty.


Not surprised. I never said there were any Laughing but we (particularly America) resort to violence before all possible diplomatic and sanction options are fully explored.

Violence should always be the final resort. Was Vietnam a threat to the US? Who gave the right to the US and the UK to remove their former friend Hussein?

Anyway, the only ones that might qualify are some of the eastern bloc dictatorships following the end of the cold war (and even they don't really fall within your very strict definition, LJ).
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group