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Are car loans driving us towards the next financial crash?
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
It would work if they added a wind turbine on top of the car to supplement the solar panels, and the faster you go the more electricity it will generate. Evil or Very Mad


Add a few helium balloons to make the whole shebang lighter and away you go.
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 947
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adds a whole new dimension to the sheer joy of driving a shining brand new car off the sales lot towards a lifetime of eco-friendly sustainable driving...... chitty chitty bang bang eat your heart out.
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telegraph: UK Car Manufacturing suffers 28% decline in domestic demand

Quote:
He added that sales of new cars in the UK highlighted the problem. November's registrations of new cars data – which does not account for where a vehicle was built – recorded a 11.2pc drop.


If in doubt, blame Brexit Twisted Evil
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 947
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2018 welcomed in spectacularly with a mass car cull in a Liverpool multi story car park. horses and people spared but beware of old Land Rovers!

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0101/930459-liverpool-car-park-fire/

When I first saw the headline I was wondering how a concrete car park could go on fire. No doubt the spread of the fire was enhanced by having so many fuel tanks full as a just in case measure because of Brexit. So beware full fuel tanks.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4646
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
2018 welcomed in spectacularly with a mass car cull in a Liverpool multi story car park. horses and people spared but beware of old Land Rovers!

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0101/930459-liverpool-car-park-fire/

When I first saw the headline I was wondering how a concrete car park could go on fire. No doubt the spread of the fire was enhanced by having so many fuel tanks full as a just in case measure because of Brexit. So beware full fuel tanks.
Once one is on fire it just spreads from tire to tire. The belts and hoses under the hood are enough to get things rolling. Had one burn up on me years ago. Backfired through the carburetor and it was off to the races.
In a car park the amount of gas in the tanks wouldn't make much difference.
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raspberry-blower



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the original thread - this is the outcome of 2017:

BBC: UK car sales drop for first time in 6 years

Everyone who wanted to lease a car already has one - there would need to be several hundred car park fires to change the outlook Twisted Evil
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Potemkin Villager



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Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
Back to the original thread - this is the outcome of 2017:

BBC: UK car sales drop for first time in 6 years

Everyone who wanted to lease a car already has one - there would need to be several hundred car park fires to change the outlook Twisted Evil


It still amounts to about 2.5 million new cars of which only 13,500 are battery electric i.e. about 0.5%. 2.5 million yearly new car sales (plus associated debt) and a national fleet of about 30 million (rapidly depreciating) cars are a pretty mind blowing combination of figures IMHO.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is the depreciation relevant at a national level?

There is still the maintenance to keep the money turmning over. The payment for the vehicle represents labour hours, a small amount of materials and profit for shareholders. Depreciation is not relevant unless all the cars were to be sold abroad.

If there was a larger number of electric cars built, there would probably not be enough materials available. There is certainly not the infrastructure to deal with all the battery replacements needed.
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
It still amounts to about 2.5 million new cars of which only 13,500 are battery electric i.e. about 0.5%.


Out of interest, how has that changed over the last few years? I'd expect it to start increasing at a faster rate although I think hybrids will be more popular for the next 5-10 years.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4646
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
raspberry-blower wrote:
Back to the original thread - this is the outcome of 2017:

BBC: UK car sales drop for first time in 6 years

Everyone who wanted to lease a car already has one - there would need to be several hundred car park fires to change the outlook Twisted Evil


It still amounts to about 2.5 million new cars of which only 13,500 are battery electric i.e. about 0.5%. 2.5 million yearly new car sales (plus associated debt) and a national fleet of about 30 million (rapidly depreciating) cars are a pretty mind blowing combination of figures IMHO.

Why do you think the UK car fleet is "rapidly depreciating" ? Cars have always depreciated on a pretty steep slope with both time and miles driven being factors but today they and their resale value decline much slower then the cars of the sixties and seventies did. It is the rare automobile today that is not worth a good share of the original price when the last payment is made sixty or seventy two months after first being put into service. And the debt burden is also overstated as the car you are driving is worth more then you owe on it so it gives you a positive addition to your net worth.
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BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I depreciate my vehicles at $1000 per month for my accounting purposes. This means the vehicle has about a 5 year lifespan financially and a five year vehicle loan is about the longest you can get down under.

I would expect my vehicle to last more than 30 years under the conditions and use I put them to as we have no cold winters or salt on roads here so no appreciable rusting of the frame.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BritDownUnder wrote:
I depreciate my vehicles at $1000 per month for my accounting purposes. This means the vehicle has about a 5 year lifespan financially and a five year vehicle loan is about the longest you can get down under.

I would expect my vehicle to last more than 30 years under the conditions and use I put them to as we have no cold winters or salt on roads here so no appreciable rusting of the frame.

Whatever the tax rules are in OZ but $1000 a month seams fair and traditional. Thirty years? Only drive about 7000 miles a year?
Must be nice to not have your vehicle dipped in salt water four months of every year. It is very hard to keep them more the ten years here unless they are parked indoors unmoved for the whole winter.
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BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
BritDownUnder wrote:
I depreciate my vehicles at $1000 per month for my accounting purposes. This means the vehicle has about a 5 year lifespan financially and a five year vehicle loan is about the longest you can get down under.

I would expect my vehicle to last more than 30 years under the conditions and use I put them to as we have no cold winters or salt on roads here so no appreciable rusting of the frame.

Whatever the tax rules are in OZ but $1000 a month seams fair and traditional. Thirty years? Only drive about 7000 miles a year?
Must be nice to not have your vehicle dipped in salt water four months of every year. It is very hard to keep them more the ten years here unless they are parked indoors unmoved for the whole winter.

Yes I drive about 10,000km a year so that would be about 6-7,000 miles. I get the train a lot and don't do much 'unnecessary' driving and live close to work and the supermarket so that walking is an option.

Often I have taken the car for a service and the people have told me that the mileage is the lowest they have seen.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
. It is very hard to keep them more the ten years here unless they are parked indoors unmoved for the whole winter.


I was thinking only recently that you don't see the rusty old bangers around that you used to on British roads anymore. OK the MOT keeps them off the roads but older cars seem to have much better bodies than they used to. I, typically, buy a ten year old Landrover Discovery, which are I know largely aluminium, but even they rot eventually, but they seem to last longer than they used to. I'm sure that vehicle bodies are much better built and protected than they used to be so 15 to 20 year old vehicles are much more common in the UK.

The greatest single cause of depreciation of vehicles in the UK is driving a new car off the forecourt. They drop thousands in value when you do that.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5900
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The large depreciation of the price of second hand cars is my saving grace. It means I can get an old banger for about 500 quid (usually with around 80k-100k on the clock), keep it going with parts from the breakers and drive it into the ground over the course of about 50k miles and 5 years.

All of which, apart from being extremely cheap motoring, means I am probably one of the greenest car drivers per mile on this forum.

The only issue with the above strategy is when they break down. Which is far more likely with an old banger. I've got round this by having a SORN'ed one on standby ready to step into the breach while the other one is fixed and/or if it is due for the knackers yard, while I get hold of another second vehicle to replace it.
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