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Water supplies
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Water supplies Reply with quote

Here is a filter featured on the recent Tomorrows World broadcast. Will provide safe water, as long as you don't have chemical contamination. Rainwater from the roof should be ok in most cases.

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/resources/technical-information

Having a slow sand filter will save the expensive membrane filter to some extent.

http://www.enlight-inc.com/blog/?paged=2
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BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the process of getting the roof water collection system at my place cleaned up. At the moment there is a lot of dirt and dust in the gutters. I have installed first flushes and have started fitting a 1mm mesh to cover the gutters mainly to keep birds out and reduce the fire risk but also to keep some dirt out too. The sand filter seems a good idea too but I think it rains too hard here for it to filter the water quickly enough.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A sand filter wont work with rain direct off a roof, not only is the flow rate much too great for a reasonable size filter, but also most slow sand filters need continual flow rather than just during rain.

A better approach is a mesh strainer and to automaticly discard the first water, before storing the rest in a tank.
If water is very short, then the water diverted from a first flush device should not be wasted but be stored in a drum etc. and used for watering plants.
Some authorities state that water from a tank is fit for drinking straight from the tank, but I feel that slow sand filtering, or chlorination, or ultraviolet treatment would be prudent.
In many parts of Africa water from corrugated iron roofs is stored in large reinforced cement tanks and consumed without ill effect. Reliably excluding light, insects and small animals is especialy important if drinking water directly from a tank is being considered.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elswhere in these forums I have recomended the text book, "engineering in emergencies" as being useful, it contains much information on slow sand filters, first flush devices, chlorination and other water supply and treatment matters.
http://developmentbookshop.com/engineering-in-emergencies.html
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My gut-feel is to use the "purified is the exception rather than the rule" principle. In other words, to allow the bulk of collected water to remain untreated/filtered, but to apply thorough purification to water being used for drinking, cooking, personal washing etc., and to do so at point-of-use. E.g. have a 20 litre jerry can of purified water sitting on the worktop next to the sink for use during the day. This could have been passed through a filter overnight, or treated with micropur, or boiled.

We used this method travelling overland in Africa. Our vehicle had around 150 litres of water storage, but we kept most of this as untreated (so we could fill up pretty much anywhere we came across water without going through the rigmarole of treating it and, possibly, succumbing to the temptation to rush). Each night at camp we produced enough treated water for the next 24 hours, using a Katadyn filter or micropur tablets, and kept this in a separate, clearly labelled jerry can. The basic rule was; "don't drink the water unless you know it's from the purified can".

Don't know if anyone has any thoughts on this approach?

On a separate, but related, topic, does anyone know of the purification-value of having a turfed roof? If you have a turfed, or planted, roof and collect excess rainwater that has soaked through it, would this be clean enough to drink?
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Elswhere in these forums I have recomended the text book, "engineering in emergencies" as being useful, it contains much information on slow sand filters, first flush devices, chlorination and other water supply and treatment matters.
http://developmentbookshop.com/engineering-in-emergencies.html


That looks like a great book. Thanks for the link.
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarrel wrote:


On a separate, but related, topic, does anyone know of the purification-value of having a turfed roof? If you have a turfed, or planted, roof and collect excess rainwater that has soaked through it, would this be clean enough to drink?


I'm not sure about the purification values, Tarrel, even though I've been on a green roofs course. The major problem that you would face is that you would end up with organic material in the collected rainwater: http://livingroofs.org/2010030777/green-roof-benefits/waterqual.html

The level of rainwater retention by the green roof is dependant on its depth:
http://livingroofs.org/2010030671/green-roof-benefits/waterrunoff.html

Therefore, you would not be collecting as much rainwater as a conventional roof. Given the fact the excess water is released at a slower flow rate, it may be feasible to incorporate a sand filter - although I wouldn't bank on it.

However, if you want to install a green roof, the first rule is to get a structural engineer in. You don't want a roof collapse!
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sam_uk



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one of those lifesaver bottles. Good for hiking or short term use, but daily use would be a pain.

We got one of these when we found out we had lead in our water
http://www.greenshop.co.uk/doulton-british-berkefeld-gravity-filter-5302.html

You can get different grade filters for them.

To be honest you don't need the fancy (expensive) stainless tub. Just the replacement filters:
http://www.greenshop.co.uk/british-berkefeld-super-sterasyl-candle-5303.html?osCsid=vnkt7oo3gaa1883vdiq6rhclu0

So long as you have a drill and a decent size potable water container you could rig up the filter yourself.
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sam_uk wrote:
I have one of those lifesaver bottles. Good for hiking or short term use, but daily use would be a pain.

We got one of these when we found out we had lead in our water
http://www.greenshop.co.uk/doulton-british-berkefeld-gravity-filter-5302.html

You can get different grade filters for them.

To be honest you don't need the fancy (expensive) stainless tub. Just the replacement filters:
http://www.greenshop.co.uk/british-berkefeld-super-sterasyl-candle-5303.html?osCsid=vnkt7oo3gaa1883vdiq6rhclu0

So long as you have a drill and a decent size potable water container you could rig up the filter yourself.


I hear these are the dog's doodahs when it comes to water filters.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sam_uk wrote:
I have one of those lifesaver bottles. Good for hiking or short term use, but daily use would be a pain.

We got one of these when we found out we had lead in our water
http://www.greenshop.co.uk/doulton-british-berkefeld-gravity-filter-5302.html

You can get different grade filters for them.


My understanding the Lifesaver is a biological filter and something different is needed tocope with heavy metals.
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sam_uk



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the Bottle is just bacterial.

The Berkefeld can handle lead with the right filters:

http://www.safariquip.co.uk/all-categories/water-purification/british-berkefeld-atc-super-sterasyl-candle/
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's assume that the roof of Chateau Renewable includes no heavy metals. If that's the case, and we take water out of our rainwater-barrels with a view to drinking it, we can either boil it or do something with it that requires no on-site energy, such as add something.

There's been a lot of talk on these pages about specialised tabs for this purpose, but is there anything wrong with simply using a few drops of ordinary household Chlorine bleach?
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Household bleach works provided that it contains ONLY bleach, a great many bleach type products also contain pefume, detergent, or disinfectant.

The strength of household bleach is also rather variable and it loses potency with time.

Certainly better than nothing, but I prefer the proper chlorine tablets sold for the purpose. They are very cheap in bulk.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, that's worth knowing.

But how can bleach lose potency? Does the Chlorine evaporate or what?
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sam_uk



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:

Certainly better than nothing, but I prefer the proper chlorine tablets sold for the purpose. They are very cheap in bulk.


Then of course you put it through your Berkefeld to get rid of the horrible chlorine taste Smile
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