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Is the high street doomed ?
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5290
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:

And you call yourselves civilized? That is nothing less then anarchy and if not reversed will destroy your economy.


Permitting teachers to carry guns to shoot errant students is not anarchy as it’s permitted. I think your comment is a bit rich. The US approach is to shoot everybody, but that is not the only thing that will destroy your economy. Feeding people the wrong stuff so much more is spent on sick care looks like a sure fire way of eventually destroying the economy too.

The US approach is to shoot or arrest everyone that is stealing from you or assaulting you. That is a long way from shooting everybody. If you know you might get arrested or even shot you might keep your fingers in your own pockets. What you have given to the thugs in the UK is a license to steal and it is open season on all shop keepers.
We had a shooting in a school in Maryland the other day where the armed school guard shot the shooter and saved the day. You don't hear much about that story.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5290
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Feeding people the wrong stuff so much more is spent on sick care looks like a sure fire way of eventually destroying the economy too.

Nobody tells me which groceries to buy or what to eat. If I have an unhealthy diet it is entirely my responsibility.
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BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 599
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was listening to some oldies chatting in the local club one day (note I will be an oldie one day but I was not as old as these oldies and it isn't really an insult in Australia) and they were talking about how the town was getting too busy and should one day go back to being a much smaller quieter place like it was when the oldies were youngies.
One of them suddenly blurted out that there were too many shops and the town could not possibly have supported that many shops twenty, thirty, forty years ago.

Maybe we have got to a stage of 'Peak Shop'. Radical I know. Just another symptom of collapse along with the shoplifting, police reduction. Maybe we have gotten to "Peak Police' as well. I know I am not as serious as other posters but I think we are all thinking along the same lines and have a pretty good idea where it is all headed.

Perhaps retail and trading will get more local and informal in the future but at the moment that is not the case. For instance I used to go to a lot of garage/yard sales and picked up some good stuff especially when old tools were being sold off. These things keep money in the local economy and stop useful goods being junked. We are seeing a lot of money siphoned out of the localities by online retailers but in rural Australia we are also seeing a lot of local goods/services being sold on social media. Note the costs of shipping in Australia are quite large compared with the UK so this may not be happening in the UK as much.

I am noticing that things are not as 'fixable' as they were. This may be another factor in the demise of the high street. Finite life times of things are almost designed in. For example shoes are no longer stitch-able but have soles of moulded plastic - so the shoe repair places are needed less. Same for TVs - they are all surface mount components which are harder to fix. A lot of electronics shops in my childhood also repaired stuff. Do they now? In the novel Brave New World there is a quote 'Ending is better than mending". Is it really?
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's another thing that's happening re. shoplifting. With all the shops in a sort of 'arms race' to sell, displays are becoming ever more 'obsessive' (this is a technical term in Marketing, really!). This type of display is simply easier to lift things from, and more tempting: the goods are well within reach, not somewhere you have to ask for them (and, heaven forfend, actually talk to somebody!)

Self-checkouts are the latest extension of this: not easier for the punters but in this case cheaper for the shop. And everybody cheats on them - everybody. (Disclaimer: it's so bloody tempting, I daren't use them).

The very same things that make folk want to buy goods will also make them want to nick them. And that is really, really tough for small shops for whom the process of buying and selling remains, as it should be, a social activity.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
There's another thing that's happening re. shoplifting. With all the shops in a sort of 'arms race' to sell, displays are becoming ever more 'obsessive' (this is a technical term in Marketing, really!). This type of display is simply easier to lift things from, and more tempting: the goods are well within reach, not somewhere you have to ask for them (and, heaven forfend, actually talk to somebody!)

Self-checkouts are the latest extension of this: not easier for the punters but in this case cheaper for the shop. And everybody cheats on them - everybody. (Disclaimer: it's so bloody tempting, I daren't use them).

The very same things that make folk want to buy goods will also make them want to nick them. And that is really, really tough for small shops for whom the process of buying and selling remains, as it should be, a social activity.

With all the security cameras I'd think it would be no problem to sort out the worst offenders and have the Bobbies pick them up at home and have a little perp walk past the neighbors with pictures and court proceedings in the local paper. If they do it repeatedly it soon adds up to well over a hundred pounds.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:


Self-checkouts are the latest extension of this: not easier for the punters but in this case cheaper for the shop. And everybody cheats on them - everybody. (Disclaimer: it's so bloody tempting, I daren't use them).
.


Um, everybody? I don’t have any such leanings.
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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Location: York

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you're unusual then.

Put it this way: I'm kind-of a bit boring and straight-laced when it comes to crime (bar swearing). I never even got a dit. at school.

If something tempts EVEN ME to crime, it has a fundamental design flaw.
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't say I've ever cheated while using self-checkouts. I'm sure some people do though.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I avoid self checkouts like the plague. There is always a real person an isle or two over that needs the job and doesn't beep at you when you don't do things just right.
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careful_eugene



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 549
Location: Nottingham UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
woodburner wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:

And you call yourselves civilized? That is nothing less then anarchy and if not reversed will destroy your economy.


Permitting teachers to carry guns to shoot errant students is not anarchy as it’s permitted. I think your comment is a bit rich. The US approach is to shoot everybody, but that is not the only thing that will destroy your economy. Feeding people the wrong stuff so much more is spent on sick care looks like a sure fire way of eventually destroying the economy too.

The US approach is to shoot or arrest everyone that is stealing from you or assaulting you. That is a long way from shooting everybody. If you know you might get arrested or even shot you might keep your fingers in your own pockets. What you have given to the thugs in the UK is a license to steal and it is open season on all shop keepers.
We had a shooting in a school in Maryland the other day where the armed school guard shot the shooter and saved the day. You don't hear much about that story.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html

I wouldn't call "critical condition with life threatening injuries" saving the day. He may have prevented further people being shot but the report seems to indicate that the shooter shot himself.
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubes wrote:
Can't say I've ever cheated while using self-checkouts. I'm sure some people do though.


I have no doubt that some losses occur, but these are presumably less than ABOUT £15 an hour, that being an estimate of the cost of employing a human instead.

(The minimum wage is AFAIK £7.50 an hour at present, however the total cost of employing someone is estimated at about twice the minimum wage. Including employers national insurance, employers pension scheme, holiday pay, sick pay, uniform, training and other costs)
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always avoid self service checkouts if possible and refuse to use then when directed by a staff member as I don't wish to put another person out of a job. It is usually a more pleasant experience to deal with a person rather than a machine.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

careful_eugene wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
woodburner wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:

And you call yourselves civilized? That is nothing less then anarchy and if not reversed will destroy your economy.


Permitting teachers to carry guns to shoot errant students is not anarchy as it’s permitted. I think your comment is a bit rich. The US approach is to shoot everybody, but that is not the only thing that will destroy your economy. Feeding people the wrong stuff so much more is spent on sick care looks like a sure fire way of eventually destroying the economy too.

The US approach is to shoot or arrest everyone that is stealing from you or assaulting you. That is a long way from shooting everybody. If you know you might get arrested or even shot you might keep your fingers in your own pockets. What you have given to the thugs in the UK is a license to steal and it is open season on all shop keepers.
We had a shooting in a school in Maryland the other day where the armed school guard shot the shooter and saved the day. You don't hear much about that story.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html

I wouldn't call "critical condition with life threatening injuries" saving the day. He may have prevented further people being shot but the report seems to indicate that the shooter shot himself.

Comparing two injured even if critically to seventeen dead plus numerous injuries as not saving the day is a bit disingenuous on your part. They won't say for sure who's bullet killed the shooter until the autopsy is complete but even if the shooter took his own life he did it because he could not continue on a rampage unmolested. Not knowing his plan you can never know how many would have been killed unless he has left some kind of note. But at any rate the responding officer could not wait and had to act just on the fact that shots were being fired.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he hadn't had a gun in the first place he wouldn't have shot anyone.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you go again, spoiling a good story by throwing in facts to cause confusion. Wink
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