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Extinction Rebellion, ongoing disscussion.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 310
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
XR are branded anarchist extremists

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/16/treat-extinction-rebellion-extremist-anarchist-group-former/

However, Richard Walton works for Policy Exchange, a think tank with very murky funding sources

I guess they must be doing something right (XR, that is)


Sounds like the authoritarian wankers are getting their noses out of joint over lost shopping revenue. And who cares if they are anarchists, anarchists are fine people. The ones that obey the laws, pay taxes, and shop as expected by TPTB anyway.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XR protestors are naive, hardly extreme anarchists. They are wound up by the founders to do their bidding, get arrested, and then left to fend for themselves.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 310
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
XR protestors are naive, hardly extreme anarchists. They are wound up by the founders to do their bidding, get arrested, and then left to fend for themselves.


Here in the US, the pipeline NIMBYs at least set up defense funds for their members that get tagged. Bail money even sometimes. Are these folks Brit based, and they are just stingy?
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger Hallam is British, as is Gail Bradbrook. XR is supposedly worldwide. Overall nothing much is likely to happen, as in the end apathy seems to rule. See the story of the Aral Sea, and note the comment right at the end. Off topic, but illustrates disasters are caused by factors other than burning fossil fuels.

Seems Bradbrook flew (good environmental cred there then) to Costa Rica to get some mind bending drugs. See more and then took even more mind bending drugs which she claim has rewired her brain. So is XR controlled by a drug crazed nutter?
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11309
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
XR protestors are naive, hardly extreme anarchists. They are wound up by the founders to do their bidding, get arrested, and then left to fend for themselves.


Having met many XR protestors, had a chat and a drink with them and put some up overnight before seeing them off to London in the morning I can definitely say that not all of them are naive. Neither are those who have formed our local branch, many of whom I know quite well and they are definitely not anarchists, let alone extreme ones.

As to your last sentence, woodburner, they do not need to be "wound up", they are incensed enough by government inaction on climate change to do whatever it takes to get arrested. When arrested they are not alone as observers accompany them to the police station. I'm not sure that any have gone to court yet, most have simply been held for a while and then released without charge because of the non violent nature of the protests. I have spoken to a police woman about the protests and she said that the police admired the non violent nature of the protesters. There is even a Police XR group and XR didn't know how to handle that! Not something that they had foreseen.

And XR isn't controlled by anyone. That is a basic part of the set up. It is formed of autonomous groups who can and do act completely independently when they wish; even worldwide.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7088
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
....And XR isn't controlled by anyone. That is a basic part of the set up. It is formed of autonomous groups who can and do act completely independently when they wish; even worldwide.
That, if I may say so, is very naive Ken.

Last edited by Little John on Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I now see why KL will not believe anything that might undermine belief in goddess Gail. Best keep head in sand.
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Last edited by woodburner on Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

done
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have met numerous extinction rebellion supporters.

My main criticism of those whom I met is lack of understanding of basic science, and an apparent reluctance to "do numbers"

A few examples,

The carbon emissions from electricity production were discussed. I pointed out the merits of wind turbines in this regard, but the general mood was against large wind turbines and in favour of small ones for each house.
I pointed out the much greater costs thereof.
No one present seemed able to grasp the idea that a microturbine will NEVER be able to extract much wind energy from a physically small area.
The great advances in mobile phone technology were mentioned as proof that a small wind turbine "no bigger than a satellite dish" should "soon" be able to power a house.

A widely held view was that many new and useful energy saving or energy producing inventions were kept secret by wicked fat cat corporations, to extract EVEN MORE money from the downtrodden consumer.

There was a general lack of understanding of basic physics.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 310
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
I have met numerous extinction rebellion supporters.

My main criticism of those whom I met is lack of understanding of basic science, and an apparent reluctance to "do numbers"


Sounds amazingly similar to my experience with happy mcpeaksters! Maybe this supports another idea I've often mentioned, and that is zealots are just zealots? Believe first, rationalize second, scream DENIER!!! at anyone with a well informed dissent. The topic doesn't matter, but the pattern is common.

adam2 wrote:



A few examples,

A widely held view was that many new and useful energy saving or energy producing inventions were kept secret by wicked fat cat corporations, to extract EVEN MORE money from the downtrodden consumer.


100 mpg carburators and Big Oil during the 1970's energy crisis in the States. Conspiracy beliefs seem to be a big part of people trying to explain things that they really aren't equipped to understand. Or maybe are equipped, but just don't want to?

adam2 wrote:

There was a general lack of understanding of basic physics.


Geology, economics, hell any applied science usually. Even more noticeable is a lack to utilize different sciences or specialties in combination. Geology and economics, physics and geology, engineering and economics,
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eatyourveg



Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 1177
Location: uk

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
woodburner wrote:
XR protestors are naive, hardly extreme anarchists. They are wound up by the founders to do their bidding, get arrested, and then left to fend for themselves.


Having met many XR protestors, had a chat and a drink with them and put some up overnight before seeing them off to London in the morning I can definitely say that not all of them are naive. Neither are those who have formed our local branch, many of whom I know quite well and they are definitely not anarchists, let alone extreme ones.

As to your last sentence, woodburner, they do not need to be "wound up", they are incensed enough by government inaction on climate change to do whatever it takes to get arrested. When arrested they are not alone as observers accompany them to the police station. I'm not sure that any have gone to court yet, most have simply been held for a while and then released without charge because of the non violent nature of the protests. I have spoken to a police woman about the protests and she said that the police admired the non violent nature of the protesters. There is even a Police XR group and XR didn't know how to handle that! Not something that they had foreseen.

And XR isn't controlled by anyone. That is a basic part of the set up. It is formed of autonomous groups who can and do act completely independently when they wish; even worldwide.


That is my take on it. There really are some cynics on here. Go to post a letter and somebody will pipe up with a bloody conspiracy theory about it. Jesus.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
........at anyone with a well informed dissent.


You're not talking about woodburner then!!

Quote:
Even more noticeable is a lack to utilize different sciences or specialties in combination. Geology and economics, physics and geology, engineering and economics,


Give over! Since when has economics been a science? Calling economics a science gives true science a bad name.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 310
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:


Give over! Since when has economics been a science? Calling economics a science gives true science a bad name.


Economics is a social science. I must admit to a bias to the natural and physical sciences, but as long as we all understand that the basics of economics relates to observations on how humans behave (allegedly in both the micro and macro sense) and in quantifying that behavior, it seems as much a science as the other social sciences.

All peak oilers by now should realize that their disdain for the dismal science is a large part of what earned them a well deserved egg on face moment. Well, yet another one, as I am fond of pointing out. Smile
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:


Give over! Since when has economics been a science? Calling economics a science gives true science a bad name.


Economics is a social science. I must admit to a bias to the natural and physical sciences, but as long as we all understand that the basics of economics relates to observations on how humans behave (allegedly in both the micro and macro sense) and in quantifying that behavior, it seems as much a science as the other social sciences.

All peak oilers by now should realize that their disdain for the dismal science is a large part of what earned them a well deserved egg on face moment. Well, yet another one, as I am fond of pointing out. Smile
What a load of drivel. If you are seriously saying you consider that economic models are constructed along the same evidentially based lines as scientific models, you are either a liar or a fool.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Economics is science to the same level as much of current climate is. Some observation, plenty of computer models, so it’s not that much drivel, unless they both are.
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