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General Election Dec 2019 thread
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 900
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

Boris only has an English mandate though, which will mean trouble ahead....


Shows what you know.

My island just voted in a conservative.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1358
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Mark wrote:

Boris only has an English mandate though, which will mean trouble ahead....


Shows what you know.

My island just voted in a conservative.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

Labour 22 (-6)
Conservative 14 (+6)
Plaid Cymru 4 (-)

Cons increased by 6, but Labour still the biggest Party in Wales.
But you already knew that....
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 8530
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
stumuz1 wrote:
Mark wrote:

Boris only has an English mandate though, which will mean trouble ahead....


Shows what you know.

My island just voted in a conservative.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

Labour 22 (-6)
Conservative 14 (+6)
Plaid Cymru 4 (-)

Cons increased by 6, but Labour still the biggest Party in Wales.
But you already knew that....
Conservatives are the biggest party in Blyth. Labour are the biggest party in London. So, I guess Blyth and London should go their separate ways...right?

This kind of snide, nasty, deeply divisive and dangerous bullshit (along side pitting old against young, black against white etc) has been used by Remainers to undermine the union of this country. Pack it in for F--k's sake.


Last edited by Little John on Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1358
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Mark wrote:
stumuz1 wrote:
Mark wrote:

Boris only has an English mandate though, which will mean trouble ahead....


Shows what you know.

My island just voted in a conservative.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

Labour 22 (-6)
Conservative 14 (+6)
Plaid Cymru 4 (-)

Cons increased by 6, but Labour still the biggest Party in Wales.
But you already knew that....
Conservatives are the biggest party in Blyth. Labour are the biggest party in London. So, I guess Redcar and London should go their separate ways...right?

This kind of snide, nasty, deeply divisive and dangerous bullshit (along side pitting old against young, black against white etc) has been used by Remainers to undermine the union of this country. Pack it in for F--k's sake.


I was merely correcting an incorrect assertion that the Conservatives have a mandate in Wales - nothing more.
Of course, generous, kind hearted, inclusive hard Brexit types like your good self will now be working hard to bring the country together...
We will see....
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ReserveGrowthRulz
Banned


Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 738
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
Mark wrote:

This shows your level of understanding....


It certainly might. But I purport to be no expert in UK politics.


The difference between England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Great Britain & United Kingdom is basic Geography - it's easy to Google.


Duh. That wasn't what I asked and you know it.


Last edited by ReserveGrowthRulz on Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1702
Location: Somewhere on reddit

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
If Johnson betrays the vote given to him as a consequence of Brexit, blood will, finally, begin to be shed. To be honest, I think that is the most likely outcome heading this way.


I hope that the populace gradually turns its back on the state : both central and local.

Already the dominance of Google, Amerzon etc has detached the people from much of the state.

I see in increase in low cost private healthcare.

I also expect less social responsibility "Why should we declare all our income - THEY will only waste it."

On the immigration front, I expect to see an increase in cantonisation, as a response to uncontrolled borders.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1702
Location: Somewhere on reddit

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:

What does the difference between a hard and soft Brexit mean to an independent business owner such as yourself?


I import a lot of high tech medical electronics .... a hard brexit could require me to import from other countries ... cheaper but less quality and weaker support.
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clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8765

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
Already the dominance of Google, Amerzon etc has detached the people from much of the state.

That's an interesting thought. What do you mean by detachment from the state? Could it be argued that these corps have captured part of the state? Or are reliant on the state by allowing low tax bill, zero-hour contracts, a benefit-subsidised workforce etc?
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 11155
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Mark wrote:
stumuz1 wrote:
Mark wrote:

Boris only has an English mandate though, which will mean trouble ahead....


Shows what you know.

My island just voted in a conservative.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

Labour 22 (-6)
Conservative 14 (+6)
Plaid Cymru 4 (-)

Cons increased by 6, but Labour still the biggest Party in Wales.
But you already knew that....
Conservatives are the biggest party in Blyth. Labour are the biggest party in London. So, I guess Blyth and London should go their separate ways...right?

This kind of snide, nasty, deeply divisive and dangerous bullshit (along side pitting old against young, black against white etc) has been used by Remainers to undermine the union of this country. Pack it in for F--k's sake.


Whatever side you're on, the divisions of the last three years need to be over now. We've had the closest thing to a civil war considering no actual shots were fired, but the losing side must now accept they have lost. Quite a few are now talking about regathering for a fightback in a few years. They know they've lost now, but do not accept it is forever.

However, if there is a future political campaign to rejoin, I don't believe Labour will have anything to do with it. The libdems might try to go down that path, but it will get them nowhere.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 8530
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Whatever side you're on, the divisions of the last three years need to be over now. We've had the closest thing to a civil war considering no actual shots were fired, but the losing side must now accept they have lost. Quite a few are now talking about regathering for a fightback in a few years. They know they've lost now, but do not accept it is forever.

However, if there is a future political campaign to rejoin, I don't believe Labour will have anything to do with it. The libdems might try to go down that path, but it will get them nowhere.
Nothing has been won yet. Not by a long shot. There are now 12 months available to kill Brexit by a thousand cuts.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8765

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Nothing has been won yet. Not by a long shot. There are now 12 months available to kill Brexit by a thousand cuts.

Absolutely, if Brexit leaves us with the same relationship as Norway for example, very few leavers will be happy! This is definitely a risk, with a large enough majority to mostly ignore the ERG Johnson may well try for the fastest, least impactful, softest Brexit possible - then simply claim 'Brexit is DONE'. Those three words repeated ad nauseam.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 5064
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7792825/DAN-HODGES-reveals-saw-Boris-Johnsons-smash-election-victory-coming.html

Interesting commentary from Dan Hodges.

Labour really lost their working class base this election. Been a long time coming tbh - going back to Tony Blair.

Reading the Times today, its fascinating how the Cummings clique running the UK are determined to transform the Tory party (which Cummings is not a member of) into a post-neoliberal party geared to the north.

Boris, for similar reason, is also determined to reshape the civil service to focus on the north where the Tories new voters are held.

Tories are quite aware that their new seats are not big fans of the Tories - and it is up to the Tories over the next 5 years to earn their trust and respect to keep these seats at the next ge.

So far, so good. No sign of complacency from Tory-land. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic already about 2024! My only worry is if Cummings left government - as a northerner he "gets" why many dislike the Tories.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 5064
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Headline news that Emily Thornberry has allegedly called Northerners stupid will go down very badly.

Even if it turns out to be fake news, it feels plausible given their track record in the past.

Labour desperately need to move away from these snobby north London intellectuals and reconnect with their roots. Always been a big fan of Alan Johnson and would have considered voting Labour if he was leader.

They need somebody like Johnson to come along soon... not seeing it!
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1702
Location: Somewhere on reddit

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Vortex2 wrote:
Already the dominance of Google, Amerzon etc has detached the people from much of the state.

That's an interesting thought. What do you mean by detachment from the state? Could it be argued that these corps have captured part of the state? Or are reliant on the state by allowing low tax bill, zero-hour contracts, a benefit-subsidised workforce etc?

Think of your day-to-day life.

Most people interact with Google, Facebook, Amerzon and other transnational entities far more than with local entities.

In fact we curse and scream when we have to pay our water bill or rates : my local government council has a voice message saying something like: "We are busy at the moment. We will try to respond to your query within 6 weeks"

To pay my local rates last month I had to drive to the local office as their computer systems would simply not accept my plastic cards. And then they charged me £220 per month for .. err .. not much.

In contrast that amazing high tech widget ordered from Amerzon costs pennies and arrives from China within a day or so.

Also censorship, profiled news delivery etc from the transnational firms affect your life far more than anything the state does.

I suspect that if you asked the person in the street what they would choose, if only one was possible: Parliament or Amerzon/Google etc. then Parliament would lose.

... and it will only get worse ...
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1358
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Whatever side you're on, the divisions of the last three years need to be over now. We've had the closest thing to a civil war considering no actual shots were fired, but the losing side must now accept they have lost. Quite a few are now talking about regathering for a fightback in a few years. They know they've lost now, but do not accept it is forever.

However, if there is a future political campaign to rejoin, I don't believe Labour will have anything to do with it. The libdems might try to go down that path, but it will get them nowhere.


Totally agree - the Leave/Remain debate is over.
However, the divisions very much remain - I just think the election result might have created a brand new one - England vrs Scotland/N Ireland/Wales...
You only have to look at the colours on the map - it stares you in the face....
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