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General Election Dec 2019 thread
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 900
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


Totally agree - the Leave/Remain debate is over.


Also agree

Mark wrote:

However, the divisions very much remain - I just think the election result might have created a brand new one - England vrs Scotland/N Ireland/Wales...
You only have to look at the colours on the map - it stares you in the face....


Disagree.

Scotland is not going anywhere. First step a newly independent Scotland would have to take? Open a bond shop.

Day one of indyScot and you have a bill for pensions, huge public service salary bill, defence, fisheries protection bill, the whole cash flow of the state will need to be financed from day one.
So Scotland will need to issue squilions of bonds to raise money to meet the bills.
They can issue the bonds in pounds, but no control and no ability to print out of thin air.They can issue the bonds in Euros, but again, no ability to print, and having the Germans effectively control your economy. Accepting the Germans want to finance it.

The SNP only debate the easier topics. The knitty gritty they shy away from.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 11155
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Whatever side you're on, the divisions of the last three years need to be over now. We've had the closest thing to a civil war considering no actual shots were fired, but the losing side must now accept they have lost. Quite a few are now talking about regathering for a fightback in a few years. They know they've lost now, but do not accept it is forever.

However, if there is a future political campaign to rejoin, I don't believe Labour will have anything to do with it. The libdems might try to go down that path, but it will get them nowhere.


Totally agree - the Leave/Remain debate is over.
However, the divisions very much remain - I just think the election result might have created a brand new one - England vrs Scotland/N Ireland/Wales...
You only have to look at the colours on the map - it stares you in the face....


It's the west lothian problem again. Why doesn't england, or the english regions, have devolution like Scotland and Wales? The problem has been lurking for years. It may now need to be sorted out. Somehow....
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1263
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:


Absolutely, if Brexit leaves us with the same relationship as Norway for example, very few leavers will be happy! This is definitely a risk, with a large enough majority to mostly ignore the ERG Johnson may well try for the fastest, least impactful, softest Brexit possible - then simply claim 'Brexit is DONE'. Those three words repeated ad nauseam.


Oh believe me we will never ever be done with Brexit. Oh no indeed never ever. It is the nature of this beast. The row is only just getting started now and will banjax Johnson as thoroughly as his predecessors. Jezza should be relieved he did not become PM.
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kenneal - lagger
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leaving and rejoining later would be catastrophic for the UK as we would then have to join the Euro which has been run entirely for the benefit of the dominant German economy. Recently there has been a realisation that that is not working and the ECB has taken a middle path so now we have the situation where the Euro is not working well for anyone! To be forced into that would really take the UK economy down; not possibly to the level of Greece and Italy but it wouldn't be a positive move.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Whatever side you're on, the divisions of the last three years need to be over now. We've had the closest thing to a civil war considering no actual shots were fired, but the losing side must now accept they have lost. Quite a few are now talking about regathering for a fightback in a few years. They know they've lost now, but do not accept it is forever.

However, if there is a future political campaign to rejoin, I don't believe Labour will have anything to do with it. The libdems might try to go down that path, but it will get them nowhere.


Totally agree - the Leave/Remain debate is over.
However, the divisions very much remain - I just think the election result might have created a brand new one - England vrs Scotland/N Ireland/Wales...
You only have to look at the colours on the map - it stares you in the face....


The Scots have foisted socialist government on England for nearly a century and we have had to accept it. Now the Scots are getting something that they don't want they want independence! I am tempted to say let them go and get them to build Nicola's Wall, slap a toll on lorries going through it and stump up the money to buy back their two banks. They won't get any more warships to build or service and they'll loose the jobs in servicing the submarine fleet as well.

They would also have to join the Euro so they would have very little control over their finances, about as much as Greece and Italy do.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.

The scots will find trying to join the eu a challenge.

Deficit, currency and borders will all prove difficult. Independence will be a tough old business.

I hope they are ready for it!
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 6571
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Agreed.

The scots will find trying to join the eu a challenge.

Deficit, currency and borders will all prove difficult. Independence will be a tough old business.

I hope they are ready for it!
Having a good bit of Scotch ancestry in my DNA I don't think that will stop them. They will make the UK offers on ship building etc. that are cheaper then anything available in the south.
Do you know how copper wire was invented?
Two Scotsmen pulling on the same penny!.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
...........
Do you know how copper wire was invented?
Two Scotsmen pulling on the same penny!.


Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Leaving and rejoining later would be catastrophic for the UK as we would then have to join the Euro which has been run entirely for the benefit of the dominant German economy. Recently there has been a realisation that that is not working and the ECB has taken a middle path so now we have the situation where the Euro is not working well for anyone! To be forced into that would really take the UK economy down; not possibly to the level of Greece and Italy but it wouldn't be a positive move.


That's not strictly true. You have to make a committment to join the euro and then you can sit on your hands and not do anything about it with the tacit approval of the EU. Moot point for the UK for at least 20 years though imo.
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BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 791
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to rake over what happened in the last few days before the GE I noticed that polls were predicting a close race and Labour were closing in on the Conservatives.

Does anyone else think that this may have been a bit of propaganda to 'inspire' those unenthusiastic Conservative voters to get out and may have lulled a few Labour voters to not go and vote because they were led into thinking that the GE was in the bag for Labour. I would be interested to know.

The same happened in Australia earlier this year and the 'Conservative ' party - which happens to call itself Liberal pulled off an unexpected victory.
Note that Australia also has compulsory voting unlike the UK and it is on a Saturday, so not a working day. The consequences of not voting are a small fine and much more importantly steps leading to the loss of your driving license.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem was not Labour voters not voting. Nor was it, primarily, Labour voters voting Conservative. Though there has been some of that.

The problem for Labour, primarily, was the Brexit party. In a significant number of northern seats, the Brexit party pulled enough of the Labour votes to them that the existing and largely unchanged Tory share of the vote in those consistencies became sufficient to represent the biggest single share of the vote.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
The problem was not Labour voters not voting. Nor was it, primarily, Labour voters voting Conservative. Though there has been some of that.

The problem for Labour, primarily, was the Brexit party. In a significant number of northern seats, the Brexit party pulled enough of the Labour votes to them that the existing and largely unchanged Tory share of the vote in those consistencies became sufficient to represent the biggest single share of the vote.


Well, that is actually good news for Labour, since the Brexit Party won't exist next time they go to the polls. Although it does rather depend on Labour learning some lessons from their mistakes. This is possible. They are polling members and ex-members on questions about why the election was lost and whether Labour needs to change its immigration policy. I answered one this morning.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they seriously need to poll people to find out why they lost, they are far too stupid to win anytime soon.

The truth, however, is that they know full well why they lost. They lost because they made a miscalculation that the working class could be taken for mugs one more time and/or, at least, they hoped they could be taken for mugs one more time because they had no choice but to push a Remain/Globalist agenda since that is the fundamental purpose of Labour's existence now. Labour are "controlled opposition" and people like you are their well-meaning, useful-idiot foot-soldiers.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
..............Well, that is actually good news for Labour, since the Brexit Party won't exist next time they go to the polls.


That will depend on the agreement that is negotiated. If the agreement is a faux leave agreement the Brexit party and Nigel Farage will come roaring back.

Quote:
Although it does rather depend on Labour learning some lessons from their mistakes. This is possible. They are polling members and ex-members on questions about why the election was lost and whether Labour needs to change its immigration policy. I answered one this morning.


There is no point in polling members because they are the problem! It was the new membership, Momentum, that is pro EU, globalist, middle class and turns its nose up at thick, racist, xenophobic, working people. They have to poll the ex voters who left Labour and voted Tory or BP to find out what went wrong and how to get their vote back.

I noticed on the News last night in a piece about the Brexit vote that Labour MPs are still having a go at thick, racist, xenophobic Brexit voters. They still haven't come to reality. It is they who are thick!
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... Starmer has taken the lead in the leadership contest.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Labour are so utterly f***ed
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