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Coal..
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Totally_Baffled



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2824
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris.

The 1.5billion tonnes figure came from the 2004 BP stats review. For some reason this was revised down to 220 million tonnes in 2005!!

I think the figures refer to those reserves actually in production.

There are for example at least 250 million tonnes in South Wales.

Funny numbers.... Confused

I will try and find a link.


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clv101
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally_Baffled wrote:
The 1.5billion tonnes figure came from the 2004 BP stats review. For some reason this was revised down to 220 million tonnes in 2005!!

Ah, okay, that must be to do with the: "generally taken to be those quantities that geological and engineering information indicates with reasonable certainty can be recovered in the future from known deposits under existing economic and operating conditions". I guess the coal at the bottom of the deep mines that have been closed are not reasonably recoverable under today?s economic and operating conditions.

As I understand it though reopening a deep mine is a very difficult thing to do, harder than starting from scratch... and it's not as if the Nintendo generation want to go down a mine! I wonder what the economic and operating conditions would have to look like for those reserves to increase back to 1500 million tonnes?
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Totally_Baffled



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2824
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Totally_Baffled wrote:

The 1.5billion tonnes figure came from the 2004 BP stats review. For some reason this was revised down to 220 million tonnes in 2005!!


Ah, okay, that must be to do with the: "generally taken to be those quantities that geological and engineering information indicates with reasonable certainty can be recovered in the future from known deposits under existing economic and operating conditions". I guess the coal at the bottom of the deep mines that have been closed are not reasonably recoverable under today?s economic and operating conditions.

As I understand it though reopening a deep mine is a very difficult thing to do, harder than starting from scratch... and it's not as if the Nintendo generation want to go down a mine! I wonder what the economic and operating conditions would have to look like for those reserves to increase back to 1500 million tonnes?



Yep. The feasibility of those 1.5bn tonnes is certainly in doubt.

I guess it will (again) be a question of EROEI. (price in my view is second to EROEI, as if the latter is negative then the price in ?infinite!)

So in summary.

UK: =

No coal

No gas

No oil

No Wood

Nothing to burn.......

Shit.....

Everyone still opposed to nuclear power ?Shocked Very Happy Razz Twisted Evil
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mikepepler
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally_Baffled wrote:

UK: =

No coal

No gas

No oil

No Wood

Nothing to burn.......

Not looking good is it? I guess we need a lot of renewables, and maybe nuclear too to tide us over...
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DamianB
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally_Baffled wrote:

UK: =

No coal

No gas

No oil

No Wood

Nothing to burn.......


No population (reduction) policy either Smile
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genoxy



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally_Baffled wrote:


So in summary.

UK: =

No coal

No gas

No oil

No Wood

Nothing to burn.......

Shit.....



Yes, indeed a fine observation on your behalf, Totally Baffled - shit - burns extraordinarily well, once dried that is Very Happy

In fact the shepherds in my homeland have been burning cattle shit (goats, sheep) for thousands of years to keep themselves warm during cold nights in the desert (could go to even sub-zero).

I've written a letter about this to my local MP (George Galloway - yes I live in Tower Hamlets, lucky me!), explaining PO and providing a sample of deluxe, grade A, dried, goats shit, in the envelope Very Happy

I have yet to receive a reply Sad

Apologies for misspellings Wink
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bigjim



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooo 'eck!

Looks like there'll be a huge shift soon. Britain will be a third world country. And the Chinese, who are seemingly in the middle of their economic revolution, may well be enjoying a nice lifestyle for another 50 odd years depending on their coal reserves.
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fishertrop



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coal 'could ease energy crisis'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4480744.stm

Quote:

He added: "I would suggest that the reopening of the coalfields and associated clean coal technology in power stations will produce electricity far cheaper than anything else that is currently being considered."

Mr Lavery's comments come as the price of wholesale gas has almost doubled during the past week, prompting fears about winter supplies to industry in the UK
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Eth666us



Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beev wrote:
Coal is one of the reasons why I'm not about to panic. If all the oil ran out tomorrow, coal and carbon-rationing would get us through. It's not great for the environment, but it's better than starving!



The problem would be evident if there were not fossil fuels and nuclear plants...
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the_lyniezian



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was something in the New Scientist some years back about (somehow) burning coal without actually taking it out of the gorund, somehow. Whether that would help the dificulty of having to re-open mines I don't know.

I do suppose coal, or at least native coal, is not that viable anymore Those mines are not closed for no good reason.

It might provide a little bit of easing, if we are willing to seriously cut down (which is possible, but it means giving up certain habits like my posting on internet forums in the wee small hours...)
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Andy Hunt



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anyone see the BBC News item about CCS in Yorkshire, where almost one fifth of the UK's generating capacity, all coal, is located within a few square miles?

They reckon they are going to be able to generate zero carbon leccy from coal cheaper than offshore wind.

I know there's a lot of doubt over the viability of CCS for coal, but if we cracked it, and exported the tech to Chindia, it would probably do more to cut carbon emissions than all the renewables in the world put together.
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Aurora



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genoxy wrote wrote:


In fact the shepherds in my homeland have been burning cattle shit (goats, sheep) for thousands of years to keep themselves warm during cold nights in the desert (could go to even sub-zero).


Yeh, but they haven't got TV's , PC's, DVD's, and iShite's to run. When you can get 240V 60Hz out of a cow's arse, please let me know. Wink Laughing

Quote:

I've written a letter about this to my local MP (George Galloway - yes I live in Tower Hamlets, lucky me!), explaining PO and providing a sample of deluxe, grade A, dried, goats shit, in the envelope Very Happy


A waste of good shit Genoxy. Wink Should have sent him some shite!

(Sorry if this contribution has changed. I pressed the Edit button instead of the Quote button and modified the text. I think I've put it back together properly. Ken) Laughing
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aurora wrote:
A waste of good shit Genoxy. Wink Should have sent him some shite!


Waste of time, he's full of that already. Laughing
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Quintus



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 598
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't 'proven recoverable reserves' refer to what would be economcally viable to recover? If the oil price shot up - or if coal import prices shot up - the reported reserves would probably dramatically rise (ignoring any carbon taxes).

As I understand it UK proven coal reserves were reported as being c.45 bn tons in 1980 and 0.22 bn tons in 2004! (don't quote me on those figs, though I'll try to dig out the sources if requested).
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Totally_Baffled



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quintus wrote:
Doesn't 'proven recoverable reserves' refer to what would be economcally viable to recover? If the oil price shot up - or if coal import prices shot up - the reported reserves would probably dramatically rise (ignoring any carbon taxes).

As I understand it UK proven coal reserves were reported as being c.45 bn tons in 1980 and 0.22 bn tons in 2004! (don't quote me on those figs, though I'll try to dig out the sources if requested).


I think you are right quintus, as the price rises the reserve number goes up.

I guess it will be the elvel of production that would be the issue, even with coal (and certainly with UK coal)
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