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Current Oil Price
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5364
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cost of driving electric car 6 miles to town and back using wind generated electricity - £0.80p

Cost to park in a non-central area of town - £1.20p per hour.

Cost to park in town centre all day - cheaper to pay the fixed rate parking fine.

Chances of finding a parking space, almost nil.

Trump and China have agreed a new trade deal. Expect oil to rise above $80 again.
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BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 366
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
Cost of driving electric car 6 miles to town and back using wind generated electricity - £0.80p

Cost to park in a non-central area of town - £1.20p per hour.


I think you have hit on something there. The cost of battery powered motor charged by personal solar will be lower and less disruptive to the world politics and also enable the users to be more independent of government, both their own and energy suppliers.
This will be a great concern to a lot of governments, and capitalists as well, particularly in how they extract money from people with electric cars. Interchangeable batteries were given the finger by electric car users. Maybe 'leased' batteries could be an option in the name of green and the environment.
Taxes may a bit more difficult but I can see being charged royally to park anywhere could be a way of getting money out of motorists. Not sure what the oil producers will do. Maybe buy shares in electric car manufacturers and battery developers. Maybe also buy up lithium resources.

Perhaps in a few years we may watch the price of lithium as closely as we watch the price of oil now.
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12569
Location: York

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in the UK they'll buy land. In fact I reckon they probably already have.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4646
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BritDownUnder wrote:
PS_RalphW wrote:
Cost of driving electric car 6 miles to town and back using wind generated electricity - £0.80p

Cost to park in a non-central area of town - £1.20p per hour.


I think you have hit on something there. The cost of battery powered motor charged by personal solar will be lower and less disruptive to the world politics and also enable the users to be more independent of government, both their own and energy suppliers.
This will be a great concern to a lot of governments, and capitalists as well, particularly in how they extract money from people with electric cars. Interchangeable batteries were given the finger by electric car users. Maybe 'leased' batteries could be an option in the name of green and the environment.
Taxes may a bit more difficult but I can see being charged royally to park anywhere could be a way of getting money out of motorists. Not sure what the oil producers will do. Maybe buy shares in electric car manufacturers and battery developers. Maybe also buy up lithium resources.

Perhaps in a few years we may watch the price of lithium as closely as we watch the price of oil now.
Think ahead where all cars are electric and charged up by off grid solar. The government will still have to build and maintain all the roads and as electric cars are no lighter then ICEs the wear and tear will be the same along with the cost. That tax money will have to come from some where and amount to the same as the gas tax being paid by that driver in an ICE currently about $325 per year plus license, purchase tax and registrations. You may save money on gas with a plug in electric but you won't save money on the taxes for very long.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14074
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All EV 'subsidies' for the individual are really for the 1%, just like rent subsidies are.

These 'subsidies' will disappear with peoples' choices.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7758

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One key point about EVs (in the UK at least) is that once all taxes are stripped out, they aren't any cheaper to run than ICE. Now, the economics may tip in EV's favour if the car industry can manage to make EVs simple and reliable enough that they last for significantly more miles, with significantly lower maintain cost than the typical privately owned ICE.

Personally, I think the future of cars should be a shift away from privately owned vehicles. It's a hopelessly inefficient way to provision a transport system, vast amounts of under-utilised infrastructure, vast amounts of waste associated with brand development, marketing, relaunching essentially the same vehicle every few years etc...
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5364
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UK electricity is taxed at 5%. There is an annual duty tax on most ice cars, but electric cars are exempt. Road damage increases more than exponentially with the axle weight of the vehicles using it, so almost all damage is done by trucks. However, roads do decay with time, vegetation, subsidence and weather even if not used. The UK practice is to bury pipes and cables under the roadway, so in towns and villages the road is dug up and badly repaired almost constantly, which vastly increases the overall repair costs long term. Local roads are funded through property taxes, but major roads are through national taxation.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4646
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:


Personally, I think the future of cars should be a shift away from privately owned vehicles. It's a hopelessly inefficient way to provision a transport system, vast amounts of under-utilised infrastructure, vast amounts of waste associated with brand development, marketing, relaunching essentially the same vehicle every few years etc...

I take issue with that. For the urban person perhaps the Uber car can drop you off at your destination and go off and provide rides for other people while you do what ever it is you are doing at that destination and return for you when you want to leave on your next trip. But all that constant driving around wears out the Uber car or a taxi at a rapid pace. On the other hand a privately owned car takes you home (or work etc.) and sits parked and waits for your next trip and is right where you are when you need it. While it is parked it is not getting any miles on it or consuming any energy. In that regard it is very efficient as it only wears out as you use it. The Uber car has the advantage of not racking up car park fees but the rural driver seldom pays those. And as for vast amounts of under utilized infrastructure ? I have a hard time thinking of a road that isn't being utilized at close to or in excess of it's capacity.
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