PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Timetable set to phase out high-energy light bulbs
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Electrical, Theory and Practice
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14525
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
BTW, the smaller Dubai lamps are literally not worth turning off via time switch ! A time switch can easily use one watt.
So a 2 watt lamp left on 24/7 will consume about the same energy as the same lamp controlled by a time switch and lit only at night.


But presumably some people can still be bothered to manually turn off lights? Laughing Or is automatic turning on and off of lights now expected?
_________________
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11046
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is in many hotels where they have sensors which detect human presence and turn the lights on for you. I stayed in a cheapish hotel in Brazil about ten years ago and they had that system there together with a key card switch for the electricity supply to the room.
_________________
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8036

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Meanwhile Philips have introduced a new range of LED "filament" lamps with an efficiency of 200 lumens per watt...

Do you know of any availability currently?
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6732
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen these at Portrack lane in Stockton at a lighting centre. They look like a bit of gimmick to be honest.

https://www.wholesaleledlights.co.uk/b22-6w-omni-led-clear-globe.html?infinity=ict2~net~gaw~ar~138885600626~kw~~mt~~cmp~PLA%20-%20LED%20Light%20Bulbs&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7KLgnIuE3QIVkM13Ch1UNQRqEAYYBiABEgKF6_D_BwE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6732
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I have just had a look at this video and they are quite attractive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfT9w8gVz9Y
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8036

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using 'filament' LEDs for a few years now, much better than conventional LEDs. Adam2 talks of a new type offering 200lm/W, this is a major increase on the more typical ~100lm/W.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 878
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to know the switching life of bulbs. Quoting constant use life tells us nothing. Remember the compact fluorescents were supposed to outlast filaments many times? Filaments also got less reliable when other types arrived. I would suggest that filament bulbs were by far the lowest manufacturing eco-cost. Large plants were glass moulders and assemblers with only perhaps tungsten wire being externally sourced. Little waste disposal. The running costs in the temperate UK are often totally misquoted in many applications. It is the commercial users who are the real wasters. If the gov required every factory/premises to be insulated to best standard, the savings would be vast. Many of these have electric heating and are freezing cold or blasting out heat in winter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 878
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also the consumption quoted is meaningless for anything except a linear resistive load [a filament bulb]. If you are chopping mains down to LED voltages by phase angle or other trick, you may be paying more or less than the quoted amount of electric energy. Even if it correct or less, anything other than a resistive load will be making the supplier, from power station to your bulb, dissipate more power. So the whale saving brown rice credits are overstated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7120
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Actually, I have just had a look at this video and they are quite attractive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfT9w8gVz9Y


Yes, but to me they look very similar to numerous other LED "filament" lamps that are on the market. Not certain that these have any advantage over the many similar products.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7120
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
adam2 wrote:
Meanwhile Philips have introduced a new range of LED "filament" lamps with an efficiency of 200 lumens per watt...

Do you know of any availability currently?


No, unfortunately. The Dubai lamps ARE available now, but ONLY in the middle east. Phillips might have agreed some exclusive deal.

I expect that these lamps, or something similar will soon become more generally available.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7120
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks as though the end is near for another type of (very) high energy lamp.

Osram are ceasing production of the larger PAR* lamps, other major manufacturers have already ceased making these.

PAR 46, 56, and 64 lamps are affected. These use a Kw or more and are expensive to make, expensive to transport and expensive to run.
Demand has been falling for some time, and the final "nail in the coffin" in the case of Osram lamps was the decision to outsource production from the USA and Germany to China.

Quality was variable with a number of cases of lamps exploding in use. Production cant be returned to the USA because the machinery has been scrapped.

AFAIK these lamps were exempted from being banned on energy saving grounds, but the end is nigh without any ban.

*PAR is an abbreviation for Parabolic Aluminised Reflector. The number denotes the diameter of the lamp in eighths of an inch.
The big lamps are challenging to make being a large and complex piece of glassware under considerable stress from differential pressures and heat.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 529
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Demand has been falling for some time, and the final "nail in the coffin" in the case of Osram lamps was the decision to outsource production from the USA and Germany to China.

Quality was variable with a number of cases of lamps exploding in use. Production cant be returned to the USA because the machinery has been scrapped.

The big lamps are challenging to make being a large and complex piece of glassware under considerable stress from differential pressures and heat.

Quite a damning indictment on the whole offshoring business really if a line of products simply cannot be made ever again because the offshoring process did not work correctly or quality control was not followed.

It also shows the perils of offshoring solely to China by Western countries particularly when China is not shy about bearing its grudges about its 'century of humiliation' at the hands of those same Western powers.

I can quite easily see offshoring becoming a national security issue sometime in the future.

I would imagine that these lights will be replaced in theatres by some type of LED light. The complexity of manufacture of LED lights is unknown to me as is what resources they need but I would think they are more complex to manufacture than incandescent and may even use scarcer resources - not sure about the availability of tungsten compared with whatever rare earths go into LED lights.
_________________
G'Day cobber!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6732
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D8lmgxRqf8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7120
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BritDownUnder wrote:
adam2 wrote:
Demand has been falling for some time, and the final "nail in the coffin" in the case of Osram lamps was the decision to outsource production from the USA and Germany to China.

Quality was variable with a number of cases of lamps exploding in use. Production cant be returned to the USA because the machinery has been scrapped.

The big lamps are challenging to make being a large and complex piece of glassware under considerable stress from differential pressures and heat.

Quite a damning indictment on the whole offshoring business really if a line of products simply cannot be made ever again because the offshoring process did not work correctly or quality control was not followed.

It also shows the perils of offshoring solely to China by Western countries particularly when China is not shy about bearing its grudges about its 'century of humiliation' at the hands of those same Western powers.

I can quite easily see offshoring becoming a national security issue sometime in the future.

I would imagine that these lights will be replaced in theatres by some type of LED light. The complexity of manufacture of LED lights is unknown to me as is what resources they need but I would think they are more complex to manufacture than incandescent and may even use scarcer resources - not sure about the availability of tungsten compared with whatever rare earths go into LED lights.


Indeed, offshoring hastened the demise of large PAR lamps, but declining demand for these lamps meant that production would probably have ceased in not many years anyway.

Tungsten is not particularly rare but extracting it and making it into lamp filaments is rather involved.
The rare earth elements used in the manufacture of LEDs are only somewhat rare, only minute amounts are needed.

The manufacture of GLS tungsten lamps is relatively simple and has been carried out on a large scale for about 100 years now.
Making large PAR lamps is relatively complex, the challenges are mainly in glass working, not in making the actual light emitter.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Electrical, Theory and Practice All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
Page 12 of 12

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group