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Timetable set to phase out high-energy light bulbs
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogerCO wrote:
I don't see any LED 'bulbs' in your list Adam2. They have a lot going for them in terms of lower still power consumption and better efficiency in conversion of watts to lumens and longer (claimed) life.

Agreed they are not good for space lighting, but for point lighting (eg reading or working lights) they are fantastic.

You can read a book quite from just 2 or three 'bright' torch leds - less than 1 watt. The newest GU10 (240v) adn MR16 (12v) format ones are giving a pleasing light (not the cold blue-white they used to be) and equivalent light to a 25W incandescent from 2W - four of them will light a room quite well.

I just got a couple of these from litebulbs.co.uk and am well pleased.


Most LED lamps on the market at present have an efficiency of about 20 to 45 lumens/watt. This is an improvement over most halogen lamps which typically range from 10 to 25 lumens/watt.
Flourescent lamps however range from about 50 to about 100 lumens/watt and are therefore more efficient than most LEDs

Samples of LEDs have already exceeded 100 lumens/watt, and I suspect that these will soon be available, but AFAIK they are not yet on sale for general lighting.

The life time of many cheaper LED lamps is very poor, due to overheating or poor design.
EDITED long after the original post, allmost 3 years.
The above was true when I wrote it, but technology improves. The best LED lamps are now a realistic alternative to halogen.
Very few LED yet exceed the efficiency of flourescent lighting.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since this was first disscused, sales of some lamps have been restricted, many other types will soon be restricted, in the interests of energy saving.
.
Soon to be restricted or banned are the less efficient types of flourescent lamp and ballast, including
Most T12 lamps such as 4 foot 40 watt, 5 foot 65 watt, 6 foot 75 watt, 2 foot 20 watt.
All 8 foot lamps
Most copper iron ballasts.
40 watt "U" tubes
22 watt, 32 watt, 40 watt and 60 watt circular flourescent lamps.
Lamps of 13 watts and under are exempt, as are specialist types such as blacklight, sun tanning, dieline printing, and water treatment lamps.

I suspect that mercury vapour lamps may be next.

Replacement of the above by more efficient alternatives is justified by the energy saved, but without a ban they would have carried on for another 50 years !
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RogerCO



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gosh this is an old thread...

I see CPC currently have 1.5W 21LED GU10 lamps for 4.44 inc VAT
(here
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogerCO wrote:
gosh this is an old thread...

I see CPC currently have 1.5W 21LED GU10 lamps for 4.44 inc VAT
(here


Old indeed, but I thought it best to keep such disscusions in one place.
Some of my earlier posts are now out of date, I have edited where required and stated this.

The LED lamps that contain a number of small LEDs such as the one linked to tend to be of doubtful qaulity.
I can get much better ones, expensive though.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears probable that many older types of lamp will soon become unobtainable due to declining demand, even if not actually banned.

12 volt GLS lamps are now hard to find.
20 volt 3 watt Christmas decorative lamps seem to have ceased production.
Many older types of flourescent lamp are becoming scarce.
70 volt GLS lamps are no longer made.

I suspect that next on the list will be mercury vapour lamps and 2 pin CFLs. Probably not just yet, but I would advise against installing fittings that use these lamps.
Some countries have already banned mercury lamps, therefore production may cease without any ban here.
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DominicJ



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By 2 pin CFL's, do you mean the Bayonet fitting?
Or something else

I've got bags of the 20w ones from when they were 10p each.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DominicJ wrote:
By 2 pin CFL's, do you mean the Bayonet fitting?
Or something else

I've got bags of the 20w ones from when they were 10p each.


The bayonet ones are fine, no plans to ban them.
The type that may be banned in a few years time are 2 pin CFLs that are intended to work from external ballasts.

Lamps that use an external ballast are sometimes considered greener since only the failed lamp requires replacement, the ballast is part of the fitting and should outlast numerous lamps.
In theory lamps that use an external ballast should be cheaper since the ballast is not discarded, only the lamp. Often in practice they are more expensive in retail stores, though cheapish in bulk.

Lamps that require an external ballast come in two main types, 2 pin and 4 pin.
2 pin lamps are normally used on an external copper/iron ballast that wastes several watts. The worst example might be a 5 watt lamp on a ballast that wastes 4 watts giving a total use of 9 watts.
A more typical example might be an 18 watt lamp on a ballast that wastes 5 watts, giving a total use of 23 watts.

4 pin lamps are normally used on electronic ballasts that have effectively zero watts losses. Obviously some losses are unavoidable, but the lamp is more efficient on the high frequency and can therefore be slightly under run but give the same light output.
A typical example might be an 18 watt lamp on an electronic ballast, this might be run at 16.5 watts, with 1.5 watts loss in the ballast, giving a total use of 18 watts. Despite being run at only 16.5 watts, the lamp gives the same light as on an 18 watt copper/iron ballast. Hence the "effectively zero watts loss"

It is therefore likely that in time sales of the 2 pin lamps will be banned in favour of the 4 pin ones.
It is not that the lamps themselves are more efficient, but that the ballast is more efficient.
Forcing the use of electronic ballasts also makes the lamps last longer, which is clearly desireable.
Most electronic ballasts will also work on DC which can be useful.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My old 2 pin 2D lamps had a ballast loss of 3W on an 11W lamp.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal wrote:
My old 2 pin 2D lamps had a ballast loss of 3W on an 11W lamp.


That is fairly typical, though some are worse. And remember that losses are rounded to the nearest whole watt, so "3 watts" could be up to 3.49 watts.
A similar 4 pin lamp on an electronic ballast would probably under run the lamp at 10 watts, with 1 watt loss in the ballast for a total use of 11 watts.

The saving of 3 watts is not that much, but the savings add up over long operating hours. If the lamp is used for 4,000 hours a year, then 12KWH are saved every year, perhaps 2 a year. If lit continually, the savings might amount to 5 a year.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The general retail sale of most types of 60 watt incandescent lamps is now banned, or about to be banned, higher wattages being already banned..
EDIT In fact existing stocks may be sold, but import or manufacture is being prohibited, subject to certain exceptions.
There are a number of exceptions for specialist or industrial lamps or special applications.
However a ban on retail sales should encourage the changeover to more efficent lamps.

It is likely that most common types of 40 watt lamps will be banned next year.

Many older types of flourescent lamp are now banned.
Other types of lamp that are banned overseas but permitted here, may become unavailable if production for the limited UK only market is not worthwhile.
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Last edited by adam2 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cubes



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed that supermarkets and stocking not-quite-as-inefficient incandescent replacement halogen bulbs now. The power saving is pretty minimal though from what I noticed.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubes wrote:
I've noticed that supermarkets and stocking not-quite-as-inefficient incandescent replacement halogen bulbs now. The power saving is pretty minimal though from what I noticed.


Agree, the halogen lamps are better than non halogen types, but only by a small margin.
They dont last long and are very vulnerable to vibration, which may discourage use.
IME most people hate buying light bulbs, but dont really care about the energy used/wasted. When trying to persuade sheeple to use CFLs I normally stress the long life more than the energy saving.

Another reason to use low energy lamps is that most types operate correctly over a wide range of supply voltages.
Incandescent lamps are very sensitive to voltage variations, a small increase in voltage drasticly reduces the life, and a small decrease in voltage drasticly reduces the light output.

Variations in supply voltage appear to be increasing.
The limits are from 217 volts up to 253 volts, and some supplies vary that much. This will probably get worse, not better.
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lancasterlad



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
The general retail sale of most types of 60 watt incandescent lamps is now banned, or about to be banned, higher wattages being already banned..

Not wishing to be pedantic but I believe it is the production that is banned, not the retail sale. Retailers can still sell whatever stocks they have or can get hold of.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancasterlad wrote:
Not wishing to be pedantic but I believe it is the production that is banned, not the retail sale. Retailers can still sell whatever stocks they have or can get hold of.


I believe that you are correct.
I have edited my post to reflect this.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we are just going into the third generation of domestic lighting technology with the introduction of LED systems and some dinosaurs amongst us are complaining about the loss of the first generation!! CFLs have been around for nearly forty years and these dinosaurs think they are new technology. (Tears his few remaining hairs out!!) I wonder what they will say when CFLs are banned in a few years time.

I suppose the reality behind it all is that electricity is still too cheap to be counted in the equation of what is the best system to use.
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