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renaud



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5
Location: paris

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:36 pm    Post subject: French speaking forum Reply with quote

Nearly one year of existence, new members everyday, more than 10 000 posts at this time.
http://www.oleocene.org/phpBB2/index.php
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fishertrop



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 859
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard about this site before, at that it's content is good quality (like us !).

Alas, my french is vvv poor, so there is no point in me even trying to join in Laughing

renaud (if you come back), how is the whole Peak Oil topic received in France?
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renaud



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5
Location: paris

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One year ago, it was impossible to find any informations about peak oil in french.Now things are changing slowly.This summer thanks to the high prices, some newspapers like "le monde", "l'express", "marianne", "courrier international", "liberation" made some files about the oil problem.Most of them talked about the ASPO, but also interwieved ultra optimistics economists.So at the end, the reader has to make his own opinion.
On TV it's different, when they talk about oil, it's always a price problem, due to social unrest in Venezuela, storm in Mexico Gulf, war and terrorism in Middle-East and the geoligical problem is never tackled.
For my part I try to open topics on forums and to explain the problem, some of the responses, mostly on TV-channel websites, are really out of subject. Most of the frenchs want the govnerment to cut taxes and believe there is an hidden solution.(you know the oil companies that buy patents etc...)
The only political man who is realy aware of the peak oil is called Yves Cochet, deputy of Paris, he belongs to the green party.But a few days ago the prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, said that we've entered in a era of high prices of oil.
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fishertrop



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 859
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info

I heard that comment by Villepin on the news, though hardly anyone seemed to notice...

it sounds as tho france is about where the uk is overall, tho maybe the uk having lots of indiginous oil (and oil companies) means there are a few industry people here who speak out

what's your feeling about the future of france in a low-energy world? (at least you shouldn't starve!)
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GD



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1099
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

renaud wrote:
... believe there is an hidden solution.(you know the oil companies that buy patents etc...)


I have some experience of this. An aquaintance who told me that quite simply that "this whole business of the oil running out is purely an excuse to charge more at the petrol pump. The americans will have nuclear fusion designed" and "waiting on the shelf" ready for when we run out of fossil fuels.

See what too many episodes of x-files does to the brain... Rolling Eyes

I have been looking into simple, logical arguments against this type of thing, however I'm not sure logic is relevant in such cases! Crying or Very sad

Anyway Renaud, it sounds like you're making good progress, well done! By the way, I think this might interest you!
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isenhand



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1296
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

renaud wrote:
...
I have been looking into simple, logical arguments against this type of thing, however I'm not sure logic is relevant in such cases! Crying or Very sad



Nope, people are not logical. The see a pattern and weather it is true or false is irrelevant, they will always find reason to believe that it is true. In the end you never convince anyone of anything, they do it to themselves. The only thing you can really do is make sure information is in full view and hope for the best.

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renaud



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5
Location: paris

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
what's your feeling about the future of france in a low-energy world? (at least you shouldn't starve!)


Well, hard for me to say it in english, starvation I hope could be avoid, thanks to our nice climate, but for example this summer the west(usually rainy) and south of France(and Spain and Portugal at least) have been touched by drought.It is not as spectacular as an hurricane, but it's a serious problem.
We were 40millions of unhabitants in the early 19th century(with or without the conquests I don't know), now 60millions, so we can expect to have enough food for us.But what about the belgians?
their country looks like a great suburb.
And you english people will you to invade Ireland once again?
And what about people living in Monaco?(16 329habitants/km2)
Will they surge down into rich quarters of Paris?




Quote:
nyway Renaud, it sounds like you're making good progress, well done! By the way, I think this might interest you!


i'm not found of ready to made political system, the intentions may be nice, but well, this is not for me, human kind is not perfect, so let's deal with it....
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heinbloed



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:05 am    Post subject: stretching resources Reply with quote

This summer I came along petrol stations in France showing posters at the till to inform the clients about a new additiv added to diesel and petrol. This additiv is an anti foam agent . The poster informed the client that a new EU legislation demands the addition of 5 % bio-fuel to the normal fuel . The French are actually adding 10 % of bio fuel to the ordinary petrol/diesel ( gazol ) , twice the demanded amount , making the anti foam agent necessary to give correct readings at the pump meter . So the client does not have to pay for foam and gets the correct amount of fuel.
And they realy turn Bordeaux wine into fuel/alcohol ! After the EU pays subsidies for the grape farmers they fork out more subsidies to finance the destillers .The same goes for sunflower oil . So the EU agriculture household/etat is actually financing the car industry .....madness!! And where do these taxes come from ? Fuel taxes ? So why not increasing the fuel taxes further ? Well, Raffarin has promised to keep the fuel tax system (TIT) as it is , so the drivers are not faced with the real bill. They will raise the taxes somewhere else to keep up with demand from the car industry.
A sunflower farmer in France pays for water a tiny fraction of the money what an ordinary consumer has to pay per m3 , I think it is less then a few cents per m3 . The ordinary consumer pays about several ?s per m3 to have a shower or a cup of tea , but the fuel industry gets their raw material for nearly free .Turning France into a dessert . Just to keep the party donations from Renault , Peugaut, Total ect. flowing . I think 200 familys are sharing the power in France since pre medivial times . Not much has changed since then .
If elections could change something they would be forbidden.
And valuable research money is blasted with madhouse ideas like fusion reactors that might deliver energy for a few seconds . If not turning France into a moon like landscape for ages .
But we have Windscale , still leaking and eating away our resources.
Sorry for the rant . Keep up the good work Renaud !
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GD



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1099
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Renaud wrote:
i'm not found of ready to made political system, the intentions may be nice, but well, this is not for me, human kind is not perfect, so let's deal with it..


What I would say to this is that it is not a ready made political system really, just a place for concerned citizens to help each other solve the problems. It is not an alternative to whatever you are doing (raising awareness, reducing fossil fuel dependence, etc?) but is something to be done in parallel. It?s aim firstly is to curb the corporate madness that heinbloed has described above, not make the world perfect. Hence it is a way of dealing with it.

Renaud wrote:
And you english people will you to invade Ireland once again?


I can?t see this happening. Trade is the new imperialism, and corporations are the new colonists.
If there?s going to be food problems, the rich everywhere will prosper at the expense of the poor everywhere.
There will be no need for armies - the government of the country being ?invaded? will be complicit, as the corporations hold much more power.
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Bandidoz
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2705
Location: Berks

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: stretching resources Reply with quote

heinbloed wrote:
And they realy turn Bordeaux wine into fuel/alcohol !

So they've finally found a use for it then! Razz
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matFrench



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a wew poster here and I think that it would be good if all the people of the world would take conscience of the peak oil, it would be better.In your m?dia are you talking about peak oil?
In our french country, the media are very shy about this and the global opinion is that there is enough oil for many d?cades. Confused It is not my opinion.I am agree with ASPO.Thank you for your answer.
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matFrench



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: stretching resources Reply with quote

Bandidoz wrote:
heinbloed wrote:
And they realy turn Bordeaux wine into fuel/alcohol !

So they've finally found a use for it then! Razz

English humour Smile
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DamianB
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Dorset

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matFrench wrote:
In your m?dia are you talking about peak oil?


Welcome matFrench

The Independent, The Guardian, The BBC and New Statesman have all covered PO.
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genoxy



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 127
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DamianB wrote:
matFrench wrote:
In your m?dia are you talking about peak oil?


Welcome matFrench

The Independent, The Guardian, The BBC and New Statesman have all covered PO.


Well yes - they have, but - does it make the headlines? Hardly I think, and when they do, it's not really in the context of PO or "the bigger picture".... Though I guess that would be material for debate if the media are covering the news correctly... having lived in the Middle-East for twenty three years (being well connected to world news through BBC, CNN, SKY, etc. in the later years), I can tell you - they don't!
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DamianB
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Dorset

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compared to a few years ago, there's a lot of reporting and opinion in the 'quality' papers. As there is no 'solution' to PO that gives a BAU future, it's a difficult subject to promote. How do you sell powerdown and population reduction?
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