PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Urban myths re electricity/fuel/energy/power.
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7191
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Urban myths re electricity/fuel/energy/power. Reply with quote

Thought others might like some of the urban myths I have discovered, feel free to comment or add your own!

1) Regarding key meters for electricity, it is widely believed that the credit paid for is in some way consumed or dissipated whilst the key is in transit. "had to wait ages for the bus home and therefore lost most of the credit" etc.

2)" Electricity is cheaper at night" well, only on an off peak tarrif, I have met quite a few people who for years have been carefully useing the washing machine at night in order to save money, on a standard tarriff and not thus not saving a penny.

3) "there must be something wrong with my wiring because the bulbs keep blowing" Nonsense, defective wiring may be unsafe, unreliable or inconvienient but no common wiring fault will reduce lamp life.

4)"there is no point in turning off flouresecent lighting, since more energy is used on turning it on again" Rubbish! anyone who doubts this should try a very simple experiment with an energy meter.

5) "someone has invented a wonderful battery for electric cars but the wicked oil companies bought up the secret and destroyed it" Most unlikely, firstly someone else could have made the same discovery, and secondly why even offer the patent or secret to an oil company? would not an electric vehicle builder, or a power company be a more likely buyer?

6)"someone invented a car that runs on water, but the wicked oil companies bought the secret and destroyed it" Not possible ! water at room temperature contains no useful energy.

7) "low energy lamps dont benefit the enviroment due to the energy used in manfacture" Not true, firstly the energy used in manufacturing any common domestic lamp is very small compared to the energy used by the lamp over its life; and secondly the energy used in making a CFL is only about twice that used in making an incandescent lamp, but the CFL last many times longer.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mikepepler
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2924
Location: Rye, UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add to point 7 - the mercury in a CFL is much less than the mercury emitted to the atmosphere from coal-fired power stations supplying electricity for conventional light bulbs.

And one of my own - many people seem to think that you can generate energy by fixing wind turbines onto cars (or something similar), so they generate as they drive around...
_________________
Mike

"Deal with reality or reality will deal with you"
Dr Colin Campbell

http://peplers.blogspot.com
http://peakoilupdate.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12654
Location: York

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Thurber's granny apparently thought that electricity 'leaked' out of empty plug-sockets (this was in the days before the widespread use of kit with transformers, so in a way she was ahead of her time).

Solar panels interfere with tv reception.

It's not worth changing to CFLs because old-fashioned lightbulbs heat the room up and so reduce heating needs.
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
Stories
The Price of Time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14526
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure there must be some kind of denial going on with these people in gyms, pedalling away.

Surely it would be cheaper and more effective to bike to the gym and turn round and bike home again? When you're pedalling in the gym, you're not bringing the weight of the bike with you anywhere.

Does this qualify?
_________________
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12654
Location: York

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
I'm sure there must be some kind of denial going on with these people in gyms, pedalling away....

You can't get knocked down by a careless motorist in a gym. Unless you're very unlucky...
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
Stories
The Price of Time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7191
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
James Thurber's granny apparently thought that electricity 'leaked' out of empty plug-sockets (this was in the days before the widespread use of kit with transformers, so in a way she was ahead of her time).


Of course it leaks out of unused sockets! everyone knows that, which is why Mothercare sell little plastic covers to prevent this leakage, which could endanger children Laughing
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Neily at the peak



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 353
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam2, I talk to lots of people in our business and points 5 and 6 are very commonly discussed. I have to smile inwardly. I am however convinced that more people are becoming aware there is a problem but are yet to fully understand and link the consequences.

The Phrase I keep coming across is "they are going to have to do something soon, we can't carry on like this."

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12654
Location: York

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the feeling that the people who stymied the electric car did so because it would have hurt their own business prospects. No second party was involved.

As for water, that brings to mind an article from Private Eye that I remember from the '70's, headed:
Quote:
Irish geologists discover massive reserves of Cold Salt Water in the North Sea

_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
Stories
The Price of Time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14526
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neily at the peak wrote:
The Phrase I keep coming across is "they are going to have to do something soon, we can't carry on like this."

Neil
Who's 'they'?
_________________
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Neily at the peak



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 353
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmmm....!!!

now let me think,,

Oh yes anyone else other than me!!

Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fifthcolumn



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 2525

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
I get the feeling that the people who stymied the electric car did so because it would have hurt their own business prospects. No second party was involved.


While partly true, it's only one of the three main reasons GMs car failed:
1. Range. Only enthusiasts were willing to put up with running out of charge at some distance away from home and having to get a tow-truck to take them home. Now, however, charging points are going to be installed all over the place, at shopping malls, car parks, motels, you name it.
2. Cost. GM was losing a quarter million dollars on each vehicle and nobody had the ability to make cheaper parts. They do NOW, however.
3. Repair costs: it is much less costly to keep an electric car running because it is a much simpler beast than a standard ICE. If anything was true on the conspiracy this is it. GM makes a fortune off of repairs. This is no longer going to put GM off, however, since a hybrid will still need it's standard Internal Combustion Engine repaired from time to time. So if they can get the price down far enough it's win-win for everybody.
Except of course the eco-fascists who want to see everyone wearing hair-shirts, growing their own lentils, riding wooden bicycles, huddling together in lice-infested sleeping bags to keep warm, starving four months each year in the hungry gap and waiting patiently in turn till the government grants them a license to have one child per family.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12654
Location: York

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Points 1,2,3 all taken, but none of them explains why GM made sure all the vehicles involved were crushed, in spite (apparently) of the fact that some of the lessees really wanted to keep (or keep on leasing) them.

Perhaps GM were worried about the drivers' safety...
adam2 wrote:
Of course it leaks out of unused sockets! everyone knows that, which is why Mothercare sell little plastic covers to prevent this leakage, which could endanger children

We never bought any of these covers. And, you know, I always wondered where our 2 got all their energy from...
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
Stories
The Price of Time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vortex



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 6097

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Except of course the eco-fascists who want to see everyone wearing hair-shirts, growing their own lentils, riding wooden bicycles, huddling together in lice-infested sleeping bags to keep warm, starving four months each year in the hungry gap and waiting patiently in turn till the government grants them a license to have one child per family.

Wrong. It won't be eco fascists ... it will be plain old normal self serving fascists who will want to stay warm & comfy whilst others suffer.

"Listen up peasants. Hand over 75% of your crops as usual. Any attempt at deception will be severely punished. I can of course assure you that all your donations will be going to hospitals, old peoples homes and to other worthy causes. Whilst here I will be handing out Family Expansion Permits. These will cost 2 ounces of gold each. Sadly the state cannot afford to hand out free fuel, penicillin or vitamin tablets this year - although Councillor Jones does have some available for sale to anyone who has any valuables worthy of exchange. Ask at the blue Range Rover following this meeting. Finally rest assured that through our joint suffering we will eventually overcome the current problems."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fifthcolumn



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 2525

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
Points 1,2,3 all taken, but none of them explains why GM made sure all the vehicles involved were crushed, in spite (apparently) of the fact that some of the lessees really wanted to keep (or keep on leasing) them.


I think having to replace the $200,000 batteries under the the terms and conditions of the lease when they eventually wore out would have done the trick.

It really is all about making money.

I'm convinced that if GM could figure out how to make enough money on the original EV AND the customers actually wanted it, it would have happened.

The conspiracy theory people conveniently forget about the other car manufacturers who got rid of their electric vehicles: renault and toyota.

Toyota only built them (at a loss) to comply with the california EV mandate.

Renault built them and offered them to market. Thought the market took them up it didn't do so in a great enough volume to justify keeping the production line.

I think, however, that everything will be changing very shortly and that I hope we don't see a systemic catabolic collapse before we can get a changeover done.

I'd love to be able to talk to my grandchildren who are driving electric vehicles and them asking me about petrol cars and confusing them with whale oil...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
careful_eugene



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 545
Location: Nottingham UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little off topic, does anyone remember a little 2 seat steam driven car that made a appearence in the late 80's? I think it was called the Relland steam car, but I can't find any references on the net. (this has been bothering me for years so any information gratefully received)
_________________
Never mind, it's all anarchy isn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group