PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Mark Lynas on carbon rationing
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> TEQs
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Shaun Chamberlin



Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 119
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable Energy Consultation : Funding The New Generati Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
jo wrote:
Comment from me regarding the announcements about Renewable Energy plans :-

http://www.changecollege.org.uk/html/funding_the_new_generation.html

Poor show regarding the comments to that piece Jo. I think you're wrong to be so closed towards upstream capping. Yes, b d used more words than he/she should have but they are words you need to hear.


I also found b d's initial comments lucid and felt that they deserved a more thoughtful and thorough answer. He is right to highlight that both upstream and downstream caps are caps, and thus "actually stop the physical quantity of carbon reaching the atmosphere".

However, as I have argued on my blog, I feel that this point of contention is not the key issue - the critical question is which type of scheme is more likely to see a cap actually respected:

darkOptimism wrote:
Mark Lynas' argument is essentially that we need the cheapest, simplest way of implementing a firm global carbon cap. I absolutely agree that such a cap is crucial and necessary, but it is a mistake to imagine that this alone is sufficient to realistically address climate change. The setting of a cap is a fairly abstract process - the real challenge is to develop a society that can exist within that cap.

If we simply set an upstream cap and trust to the markets to change our energy infrastructure and individual lifestyles we will simply suffer more and more as the cap tightens over time and energy prices rise higher and higher. If that process continued, eventually the pressure to loosen or abandon the cap would become irresistible - ?sod your future generations, my children are hungry today?.

So the important goal is not to find the cheapest policy for setting the cap, but to find the policy most likely to engage the whole culture in the transition to a low-carbon, lower-energy society that can thrive within the cap.


I went on to discuss here why I currently believe that TEQs is the best candidate.

To be honest, I think that David Fleming and I are to some degree culpable in spreading a misunderstanding here as we have often spoken of the cap in TEQs as "guaranteeing" that emissions reductions are achieved. This is true, but only as long as the cap itself is not abandoned.

It is not true that all schemes containing caps are equally effective in addressing climate change, as not all caps stand an equal chance of being respected.


Last edited by Shaun Chamberlin on Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jo



Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 184
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject: I am slowly getting round to answering b d Reply with quote

@Shaun

It was late when I first replied to b d, and I haven't had much time since.

I am however, getting around to answering him properly.

Here's a further tranche :-

http://www.changecollege.org.uk/html/funding_the_new_generation_2.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Shaun Chamberlin



Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 119
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: I am slowly getting round to answering b d Reply with quote

jo wrote:
@Shaun

It was late when I first replied to b d, and I haven't had much time since.

I am however, getting around to answering him properly.


Happens to us all, Jo Smile

Is it possible to leave comments on your page? I was going to respond there, but couldn't see how.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jo



Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 184
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: No Time To Moderate... Reply with quote

@Shaun,

Sorry, but there is no person-time to moderate any comments that may get left on Change College pages, so the website is not configured to allow for people to comment that way.

Everyone knows how to e-mail me or phone me : NewsBusters and the Daily Express had no trouble in getting hold of my details when they wanted to allegedly "lambast" me.

Please do e-mail if you have comments to make, and let me know if you want them to appear in any shape or form when we get round to adding pages to the site.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> TEQs All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group